Can you name a worse tournament?

LaPennaBianca said:
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.

England are in a quarter final, this is not a God-given right.

Southgate: the ultimate victim of his own success.
Click to expand...
The debate with Southgate is should he have done/be doing better with the squad of players he has.

I think he’s doing ok because many of our players are over-rated, a common trait with England players over the years with the exception of a small few truly world class players.
 
Considering how many top tier players have been at the disposal of England we have been regularly dobbins over the years. We haven't been good this tournament, but I have seen us worse, at least we did something I have hardly ever seen us do, dig us back out of the hole we had dug ourselves into.
I'm not looking forward to a new England manager because unlike the younger posters who want it, it could be another false dawn where SF 's and finals are a thing of the past.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
I cannot believe what I'm reading here.

England are in a quarter final, this is not a God-given right.

Southgate: the ultimate victim of his own success.
Click to expand...

If someone had said after the run of absolute horror tournaments between 2008 and 2016, which culminated in the complete nadir of Iceland and the 100 days of Fat Sam, that the next manager would get us to a Semi final then a final, win more knockout games than all the managers since 66 put together, you would scarcely believe it.
If then they said that same manager would get an absolute tsunami of abuse and criticism, including from fans of a team where he is a genuine legend, people wouldn't have believed you.
 
The 2006 World Cup was pretty disappointing to be honest. We got to a quarter-final but it's the only tournament we've gone into where I've thought yeah, we have the best squad and could win this.

We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney all pretty much in their prime, not forgetting the experienced heads such as Neville and Beckham.

Didn't help that Rooney was injured and Sven only took 4 strikers, including 16 year old Theo Walcott, and Owen - who'd become a crock by that stage.
 
parmoboy said:
The 2006 World Cup was pretty disappointing to be honest. We got to a quarter-final but it's the only tournament we've gone into where I've thought yeah, we have the best squad and could win this.

We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney all pretty much in their prime, not forgetting the experienced heads such as Neville and Beckham.

Didn't help that Rooney was injured and Sven only took 4 strikers, including 16 year old Theo Walcott, and Owen - who'd become a crock by that stage.
Click to expand...
I always look at 2006 as the “golden generation” of England players (in my lifetime). We literally had a world class player in every position. It was a shame that Brazil just had an absolutely insane front line in those days but we really should have done more with that squad.

I don’t buy into the notion that we have the best squad in this tournament. We have some world class players, yes. But we also have some gaping holes and some really weak links as well.
 
Boro_Madrid said:
I always look at 2006 as the “golden generation” of England players (in my lifetime). We literally had a world class player in every position. It was a shame that Brazil just had an absolutely insane front line in those days but we really should have done more with that squad.

I don’t buy into the notion that we have the best squad in this tournament. We have some world class players, yes. But we also have some gaping holes and some really weak links as well.
Click to expand...
Bellingham and Kane are world class for me. Walker was world class at one stage but I think he might be showing his age now.

We have a lot of players who are good Premeir League level players but definitely not world class.

Our left side has clearly been our weak spot and I fear Switzerland could exploit it.
 
parmoboy said:
Bellingham and Kane are world class for me. Walker was world class at one stage but I think he might be showing his age now.

We have a lot of players who are good Premeir League level players but definitely not world class.

Our left side has clearly been our weak spot and I fear Switzerland could exploit it.
Click to expand...
Southgate was crazy not to take left backs to Germany. Pretty basic that too.
 
We play too many low-ranking teams Luxembourg, Andora, Shetland islands and the like ,Hang on Iceland ,oops no point to this post.
 
In my time as a fan, it's not even close to the worst performance. When I look at the squads we had, the results we had, and performances it's 9th best out of 21 and if we beat switzerland to reach a semi will go higher:

WC 18 - semi
EU 20 - final
WC 90 - semi
EU 96 - 1/4
WC 22 - 1/4
WC 06 - 1/4
WC 82 - 2nd group
WC 86 - 1/4
EU 24 <--- could go upwards
EU 12 - 1/4
EU 04 - 1/4
WC 02 - 1/4
WC 98 - round 16
EU 16 - round 16
WC 10 - round 16 with our best ever squad
EU 92 - group stage
EU 00 - group stage
WC 14 - group stage
EU 88 - group stage
EU 08 - DQN
WC 94 - DNQ
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Deservedly through too.

Southgate hasn't won anything yet though. Only one English manager has done that.
Click to expand...
winning should give legendary status to any manager, regardless how they acheive it (although we all know if we do win, it'll be framed as "in spite of the manager" and "luckiest draw" etc.) as is the norm these days, 90% of people entrench their views and lack flexibility or balance. But you can still have a superb record even if falling short of a trophy, which is where Southgate's record is right now.

The performances have been insipid, but at the same time, we've largely been defensively solid and for 95% of the game controlled. Has he got creative talent that is under-utilised / under-effective, yes. But at the same time, he's patching up our defence, for me Walker isn't the player he was 2 or 3 years ago, Guehi is new to this and a step down from prime Slabhead, and LB is a problem position.

It'll be a disappointment if we don't reach the semis, that was my minimum target and if we do, we are capable of moments of magic that could take us all the way.
 
BoroMart said:
WC 18 - semi
EU 20 - final
WC 90 - semi
EU 96 - 1/4
WC 22 - 1/4
WC 06 - 1/4
WC 82 - 2nd group
WC 86 - 1/4
EU 24 <--- could go upwards
EU 12 - 1/4
EU 04 - 1/4
WC 02 - 1/4
WC 98 - round 16
EU 16 - round 16
WC 10 - round 16 with our best ever squad
EU 92 - group stage
EU 00 - group stage
WC 14 - group stage
EU 88 - group stage
EU 08 - DQN
WC 94 - DNQ
Click to expand...

I think that's reasonable.

I'd probably bring the 02 WC and 04 euros up above now as we did play well in some games there.

I think EU88 could come up.a couple of rows. For all we were rank, it was an elite 8 team tournament then, and we did have both eventual finalists in our group.
 
BoroMart said:
In my time as a fan, it's not even close to the worst performance. When I look at the squads we had, the results we had, and performances it's 9th best out of 21 and if we beat switzerland to reach a semi will go higher:

WC 18 - semi
EU 20 - final
WC 90 - semi
EU 96 - 1/4
WC 22 - 1/4
WC 06 - 1/4
WC 82 - 2nd group
WC 86 - 1/4
EU 24 <--- could go upwards
EU 12 - 1/4
EU 04 - 1/4
WC 02 - 1/4
WC 98 - round 16
EU 16 - round 16
WC 10 - round 16 with our best ever squad
EU 92 - group stage
EU 00 - group stage
WC 14 - group stage
EU 88 - group stage
EU 08 - DQN
WC 94 - DNQ
Click to expand...
W/C 2010 was our best squad? We had rob green/ david james, glen johnson, aaron lennon, milner and heskey all starting. Would any of those get in this side?

It's hard to just go off semi, final, quarter final etc, depends on quality of oppo, and the route you gotta take to get to the final I think.

Euro 96 was a semi though and not a quarter final, and we lost to the winners, who were a good side. That England side would beat this one, all things being equal. That side beat Netherlands and Spain etc, and should have beat Germany. Will take some doing to top that and getting to a semi won't match it.
Same as Italia 90, semi was a good result in that, being knocked out by the winners, we didn't really win any "hard" games though I suppose.

W/C 2002 we lost to brazil in the quarters, who won it comfortably. They had a mint side and we gave them their hardest game I think.

2018 word cup we had a pretty easy route, and got knocked out in the semi by Croatia who lost comfortably to France. A "semi loss" doesn't mean a great deal here I think.

Euro 20 we had a fairly easy route, in the much easier side of the draw and only won one hard game against the Germans, but even their side wasn't that strong, or isn't as good as it is now. Italy were not great and beat us in the final, and they did that to 3/4 other good sides as well as us.

World Cup 22, we didn't beat a good side, lost to France first hurdle who got to the final and lost.

For me I think a fair judgement is by judging who you play and who you beat, we don't actually seem to win many of the tough games these days, we're more like flat track bullies (sometimes).
 
BoroMart said:
winning should give legendary status to any manager, regardless how they acheive it (although we all know if we do win, it'll be framed as "in spite of the manager" and "luckiest draw" etc.) as is the norm these days, 90% of people entrench their views and lack flexibility or balance. But you can still have a superb record even if falling short of a trophy, which is where Southgate's record is right now.

The performances have been insipid, but at the same time, we've largely been defensively solid and for 95% of the game controlled. Has he got creative talent that is under-utilised / under-effective, yes. But at the same time, he's patching up our defence, for me Walker isn't the player he was 2 or 3 years ago, Guehi is new to this and a step down from prime Slabhead, and LB is a problem position.

It'll be a disappointment if we don't reach the semis, that was my minimum target and if we do, we are capable of moments of magic that could take us all the way.
Click to expand...
I'm glad we agree. And we have had some good draws of late, including this one. We've got a fantastic chance of making the final. What is the highest ranked team in our half of the draw?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top