Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

atypical_boro said:
I know I was just wondering if anything at all could change that opinion. But if you’re saying he’d deserve no credit if the outrageous example above became true, it sounds like your issue is perhaps more personal than anything else.
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I'd the above came true I will promise to eat my words and admit I'm wrong.
 
Southgate will only ram the words down his doubters throats if he wins the tournament. We are all armchair managers and many (me included) think he has got selection more wrong than right at times but he has got the result in the end which for many is all that counts. Hard to argue we have not been impressive and ridden our luck with late equalisers and winning just one of the first five games in 90 minutes against second string countries. Do I want us to win the tournament - absolutely. Do I think Southgate is the best manager for the job - I’m not so certain. His loyalty remains for some his greatest attribute and for others his major weakness. Time will tell.
 
Doom_On_Horseback said:
Every winning team rides their luck at tournaments.

Bobby Robsons England in Italia 90 (who a lot seem to put on a pedestal to aspire to) were every bit as turgid at the group stage as the current team. They qualified top in identical results as we’ve seen this year.
Next round, Belgium. I remember they had much more of the possession and came the closest to scoring twice, with Jan Cuelemens and Enzo Scifo both hitting the post. Had Scifos effort been an inch to the right, we’d have been going home.
Next Cameroon. 8 minutes from going home which would’ve seen the team vilified if they did. Everyone was hoping we drew them in the QF. We went toe to toe and extra time with them.
Arguably our only good performance in that World Cup was the game we lost.

Euro 96. Another tournament seen through nostalgic eyes as a glorious England side. Dreadful against the Swiss in the opener which we drew. Scotland missed a penalty to make it 1-1 and then Gazza magic. Played the Dutch off the park.
Spain in the QF. We’d have lost if VAR was around then. Again played very well against the Germans but our luck ran out!

Both of the above were seen as successful campaigns. We’ve had countless unsuccessful ones where we’ve been much worse.

Name any team who has ever won anything without a slice of luck.
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I don't disagree with the luck in 1990.....
I was meaning previous tournaments under Southgate when England have put teams to the sword and looked like a team. This tournament has been very different.
The VAR analogy is nonsense and re writing history IMO
 
I think this tournament has surprisingly seen a lot of teams operating a low block game-plan and consequently games have been tight, with not many goals scored.

England are not the only team to have struggled to get a rhythm going, although I though we were much better last night, albeit we still struggled to create a lot of chances.

I don't subscribe to the "lucky" view entirely, we're blessed with some world classs players, who are able to change a game on an instant with a moment of individual quality.

Sothgates record is second to none and we're one game away from the final -again!
 
naively_optimistic said:
I don't disagree with the luck in 1990.....
I was meaning previous tournaments under Southgate when England have put teams to the sword and looked like a team. This tournament has been very different.
The VAR analogy is nonsense and re writing history IMO
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It’s not nonsense in terms of the point I was trying to highlight. We were very lucky that their goal was disallowed. It wasn’t even close to being offside.
 
SpineyNorman said:
My personal view is that, I don't care. This England team bore me to tears. I didn't even watch the match yesterday which is probably the first time ever in any tournament. We have stunk out this competition and if we do go on to win it it will be a huge "MEH" moment for me. I won't celebrate it at all. Had we won it 3 years ago, when we should have, I would have been dancing on the roof belting out Sweet Caroline.

That, for me, is the Southgate effect. He has made me not care. :mad:
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You're in a tiny minority. 17 million watched it yesterday on the BBC, the vast majority of them would have been absolutely delighted when we went through.
 
Doom_On_Horseback said:
It’s not nonsense in terms of the point I was trying to highlight. We were very lucky that their goal was disallowed. It wasn’t even close to being offside.
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Of course it's nonsense..... Using VAR to rewrite history..... You're unlikely to get to that point in time cos VAR could have changed other games etc and who's to say that If such a goal stood that England would have lost.... As said utter nonsense....
Using the same principle....Sol Campbell's goal against Argentina in 1998 would have stood and was a golden goal.... England would have won and could have gone on to win the world cup... Where does it end!!!
 
naively_optimistic said:
Of course it's nonsense..... Using VAR to rewrite history..... You're unlikely to get to that point in time cos VAR could have changed other games etc and who's to say that If such a goal stood that England would have lost.... As said utter nonsense....
Using the same principle....Sol Campbell's goal against Argentina in 1998 would have stood and was a golden goal.... England would have won and could have gone on to win the world cup... Where does it end!!!
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Sigh!

Ok, you made a point about the current England team being lucky!
I (tried) to counter it by saying every team needs a little luck. Let me rephrase it!
We were VERY lucky that Spains goal against England in the QF during Euro96 was incorrectly disallowed. Sorry to confuse you by using a VAR reference.
You pointed out other contentious decisions, underlining my point! All teams need a little luck during a major tournament.
 
BoroMart said:
Or exactly wrong.

The defence is much better than I expected our creativity is worse than I expected. The balanced view is that he’s got us resolute and winning but maybe we should be creating more
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We’ve won one in 90 minutes out of 5 games

Our form was pretty dire coming into the tournament too

I think the last 12 months has been pointing towards the performances we are seeing, compared to what we’re used to seeing under Southgate
 
ForssAwakens said:
We’ve won one in 90 minutes out of 5 games

Our form was pretty dire coming into the tournament too

I think the last 12 months has been pointing towards the performances we are seeing, compared to what we’re used to seeing under Southgate
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Our form has dropped in the last 6 months agreed. But when it mattered we’ve found a way through and are now in another semi.

I think the squad came into this euros on a little bit of a confidence drop after a handful of bad performances since qualifying and that’s needed to be built back up. It’s starting to come to fruition as performances have started to improve. There’s also a number of key players not at 100% Kane is well known to bBe nursing a back issue, but Bellingham is said to need a shoulder op, which has been put off. Saka came in not fully fit too. I think we’ve been nursing through that situation and maybe one or two more.
 
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Doom_On_Horseback said:
Sigh!

Ok, you made a point about the current England team being lucky!
I (tried) to counter it by saying every team needs a little luck. Let me rephrase it!
We were VERY lucky that Spains goal against England in the QF during Euro96 was incorrectly disallowed. Sorry to confuse you by using a VAR reference.
You pointed out other contentious decisions, underlining my point! All teams need a little luck during a major tournament.
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Sigh.... Sigh.... And you are comparing apples and pears!

You cannot say England would have lost that match if that goal was given if there was VAR.... That is the nonsense not the luck (bangs head off the wall)
 
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