Can woody turn it around?

festa5 said:
I probably have a bit more than zero faith in him, but generally agree. He has potential but as a manager he just feels so raw and that leads to inconsistent results and performances. He shouldn't have been cutting his teeth here, certainly not in the circumstances were in. The fact there is no experience on the coaching staff at all is a massive concern and something I still can't get my head around. It's my biggest annoyance with Woodgate, it comes across as extremely arrogant and that he thinks he already knows it all.

As you say my big hope is that we're now ahead of the game in terms of "living within our means" and cost cutting other clubs will need to through that they weren't expecting to.

Wishful thinking maybe.
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Good angle on it with the coaching factor
 
My main concern is that with everyone fit for pretty much the first time this season he still doesn't know what his best team / formation will be. I actually think there' a good attacking team in there which we've seen in very small glimpses throughout the season. I just hope that given the gravity of our situation he doesn't turn to the old guard to try an grind out some points. I'd love to see us with the shackles off and really go after teams with the pace of Spence, Tav, Coulson, Roberts, McNair and then maybe even get Morrison on for some cameos to give us something to cling onto for next season.
 
Jimmy_Salmon said:
My main concern is that with everyone fit for pretty much the first time this season he still doesn't know what his best team / formation will be. I actually think there' a good attacking team in there which we've seen in very small glimpses throughout the season. I just hope that given the gravity of our situation he doesn't turn to the old guard to try an grind out some points. I'd love to see us with the shackles off and really go after teams with the pace of Spence, Tav, Coulson, Roberts, McNair and then maybe even get Morrison on for some cameos to give us something to cling onto for next season.
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I guess if we do go it would be a bit more tolerable if we went going for it as opposed to our prem season where we rolled on our backs and wiggled our legs .
 
There's been flashes of good stuff, but we go from the sublime to the ridiculous often within the same half this season. When we're good, its for short spells, when we're bad we can't get out of first gear. I think Woodgate doesn't know what his best team is and if he has a full squad can do that Southgate thing of trying to give everyone a go without defining what the plan is. He is going to be here next season come what may, and to be honest getting rid and ripping up a plan again is of no use to anyone. He could do with an experienced voice on the bench with him and Robbie Keane, mind you. What's Colin Cooper up to?

I think we have enough to stay up but we'll be relying on teams like Hull and Charlton continuing to be poor to prop us up.

Conversely, I'm less concerned about the impact if we do go down now. The entire football industry is being shaken at the minute and in the long term we could come out ahead. This might be an over-optimistic view like 'might as well do no-deal Brexit now we have Covid-19' but perhaps for once, our quite parochial outlook and owner might insulate us from the fear of say, overseas investors pulling out of clubs now that investment plans etc are being thrown out the window.
 
Piccadilly Day Tripper said:
There's been flashes of good stuff, but we go from the sublime to the ridiculous often within the same half this season. When we're good, its for short spells, when we're bad we can't get out of first gear. I think Woodgate doesn't know what his best team is and if he has a full squad can do that Southgate thing of trying to give everyone a go without defining what the plan is. He is going to be here next season come what may, and to be honest getting rid and ripping up a plan again is of no use to anyone. He could do with an experienced voice on the bench with him and Robbie Keane, mind you. What's Colin Cooper up to?

I think we have enough to stay up but we'll be relying on teams like Hull and Charlton continuing to be poor to prop us up.

Conversely, I'm less concerned about the impact if we do go down now. The entire football industry is being shaken at the minute and in the long term we could come out ahead. This might be an over-optimistic view like 'might as well do no-deal Brexit now we have Covid-19' but perhaps for once, our quite parochial outlook and owner might insulate us from the fear of say, overseas investors pulling out of clubs now that investment plans etc are being thrown out the window.
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Good point
 
Robert Nichols said:
I reckon I have a lot more faith than Woodgate than many on this thread. Yes, he is learning on the job but also he has been thrown into a job with precious little money. Survival in this division with a new crop of talented youngsters will be an achievement. And lets be honest loads of clubs around us were in false positions in many ways, as they were spending well beyond their means in wages. We had started to address that before the season began. Possibly only those just promoted were actually living within their means like us. Many clubs would have had to confront it this summer even before COVID. Now it will threaten the future for several.
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He was not thrown into the job at all. He knew exactly what he was getting into, lets not pretend otherwise. Mr Gibson runs the ship and will have made it crystal clear exactly what his role was and how he expected him to go about it. Look back at that initial press conference. It was full of corporate positivity claptrap, as were his first few press conferences, his talking up of styles, players, performances, you would have to be naive not to see through it. Everything that was being said bore no resemblance to what we were witnessing on the pitch. As much as I did not want Woodgate as ’head coach’ I truly felt sorry for him. I certainly do not feel we are where we are because of Woody. He comes across not as his own man doing it his way, but as someone saying what his employers want him to say.
I thought we would have a difficult season and predicted so. I do believe a more experienced coach would not have this squad as low in the table as we currently are though. Many on the old board slaughtered me and a few others for daring to be honest before a ball was kicked. I take no pleasure in how things stand presently. It hasn’t gone too well has it.

Not having money to spend is a red herring. The club has spent around £70M over 3 years to transform our performances into a club that may be playing league 1 football shortly. To employ a group of inexperienced coaches to transform a team and its so called new vision seemed barmy and might well prove to be disastrous if relegation happens. Rob, have you or any of the journalists who attend meetings ever thought to question the chairman on the promise to make the necessary changes he quoted following relegation in 2017 and to bring the much needed pace and flair to the squad?

Journalism is a form of writing that tells people about things that really happened, but that they might not have known about already. I am not convinced that happens through any of the journalists attending any of the clubs press conferences, nor am I convinced the club want it to happen. I don’t see anyone asking any ‘difficult’ questions. It all seems a tad cosy from the clips we the fans see.

Blind faith never works well in the long run.
 
coluka said:
He was not thrown into the job at all. He knew exactly what he was getting into, lets not pretend otherwise. Mr Gibson runs the ship and will have made it crystal clear exactly what his role was and how he expected him to go about it. Look back at that initial press conference. It was full of corporate positivity claptrap, as were his first few press conferences, his talking up of styles, players, performances, you would have to be naive not to see through it. Everything that was being said bore no resemblance to what we were witnessing on the pitch. As much as I did not want Woodgate as ’head coach’ I truly felt sorry for him. I certainly do not feel we are where we are because of Woody. He comes across not as his own man doing it his way, but as someone saying what his employers want him to say.
I thought we would have a difficult season and predicted so. I do believe a more experienced coach would not have this squad as low in the table as we currently are though. Many on the old board slaughtered me and a few others for daring to be honest before a ball was kicked. I take no pleasure in how things stand presently. It hasn’t gone too well has it.

Not having money to spend is a red herring. The club has spent around £70M over 3 years to transform our performances into a club that may be playing league 1 football shortly. To employ a group of inexperienced coaches to transform a team and its so called new vision seemed barmy and might well prove to be disastrous if relegation happens. Rob, have you or any of the journalists who attend meetings ever thought to question the chairman on the promise to make the necessary changes he quoted following relegation in 2017 and to bring the much needed pace and flair to the squad?

Journalism is a form of writing that tells people about things that really happened, but that they might not have known about already. I am not convinced that happens through any of the journalists attending any of the clubs press conferences, nor am I convinced the club want it to happen. I don’t see anyone asking any ‘difficult’ questions. It all seems a tad cosy from the clips we the fans see.

Blind faith never works well in the long run.
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Another fckin essay from our very own embodiment of Godliness!
 
I am not sure Rob is showing “blind faith”. Faith from a supporter however misplaced I will never criticise even if I didnt have any myself. Maybe I should call it hope.

The fact is we cant vote these people in or out as we do a Government or a plc so our only influence is by either going or not going. Taking the latter step is pretty counter productive. Ironically we havent even got that choice at the moment.
 
Zoophonic said:
I am not sure Rob is showing “blind faith”. Faith from a supporter however misplaced I will never criticise even if I didnt have any myself. Maybe I should call it hope.

The fact is we cant vote these people in or out as we do a Government or a plc so our only influence is by either going or not going. Taking the latter step is pretty counter productive. Ironically we havent even got that choice at the moment.
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Zoo, I was not saying rob himself was showing blind faith, some people are doing just that though and clearly feel it wrong for anyone to highlight areas or poor or questionable performance. The odd poster or two on here don’t seem to understand that in order to improve you need to recognise areas for improvement. Some, have only recently started watching Boro to be fair, having previously seemingly preferred Champions League matches to the watching or even listening to the Boro games (although they would like you to think differently).

We have a voice too. The Boro’s media team will scan messageboards and even comment just like the gazette reporters do, i’m sure
 
Robert Nichols said:
I reckon I have a lot more faith than Woodgate than many on this thread. Yes, he is learning on the job but also he has been thrown into a job with precious little money. Survival in this division with a new crop of talented youngsters will be an achievement. And lets be honest loads of clubs around us were in false positions in many ways, as they were spending well beyond their means in wages. We had started to address that before the season began. Possibly only those just promoted were actually living within their means like us. Many clubs would have had to confront it this summer even before COVID. Now it will threaten the future for several.
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Rob i can't accept that survival would be an "achievement". We don't have a great squad, but let's not pretend it should be in the bottom 3. An achievement is producing an outcome that's above expectation, not providing the minimal possible acceptable outcome.
 
JM14 said:
S
Give him time to bring his own players in and judge him at that point.

If he was to go at the end of the season, who could we realistically get that would do a better job?
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From what I've seen of the players specifically identified in his power point I wouldn't let him sign anyone else.

I never get this argument, there are literally dozens of managers we could have out there. Do you believe Woody was the 'outstanding candidate' in the whole world of football, and he just happened to be a) already here, b) cheap and c) malleable to the chairman's whimsy...........
 
coluka said:
Zoo, I was not saying rob himself was showing blind faith, some people are doing just that though and clearly feel it wrong for anyone to highlight areas or poor or questionable performance. The odd poster or two on here don’t seem to understand that in order to improve you need to recognise areas for improvement. Some, have only recently started watching Boro to be fair, having previously seemingly preferred Champions League matches to the watching or even listening to the Boro games (although they would like you to think differently).

We have a voice too. The Boro’s media team will scan messageboards and even comment just like the gazette reporters do, i’m sure
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Unbelievable Jeff!
 
He impressed me this season when coming into contact with him.
I have said many times how I saw a changed man when he returned to the football club. From that moment he appeared focused and driven. The old Woodgate had gone. I think his father and family played a major role in this.
I have said before how I was told about how Woodgate as a player would watch the progress of youngsters at the club and offer them detailed advice and support. The father of one youngster, the late, great Tommy Kitching phoned me to regale with the detailed advice and tips Woody had given to his son before making his debut for the Development Team - so, not even the first team. It went even as far as treating different sides of the Riverside pitch in different ways and about how he should pace himself through the game, specifically the first 20 mins.
What impressed Tommy was that Woodgate knew in detail all about his son's abilities, strengths and wanted to take him aside and give a long talk to him to impart lots of detailed knowledge and it really helped. Tommy had never come across anything like this before and so had to pick up the phone and tell me.
The Woodgate I have seen since becoming manager, is a young, dynamic, modern coach, Making mistakes, yes but learning and taking things on board all the time. He has an ethos but he will adapt and change that ethos. He studies tactics but he also studies people. He knows his players. He knows his own flaws and mistakes from the past and seems determined that his players should not fall into the same holes.
He is really determined. Very driven. And learning on the job. I think he can become a top manager with Boro.
 
fmttmadmin said:
He impressed me this season when coming into contact with him.
I have said many times how I saw a changed man when he returned to the football club. From that moment he appeared focused and driven. The old Woodgate had gone. I think his father and family played a major role in this.
I have said before how I was told about how Woodgate as a player would watch the progress of youngsters at the club and offer them detailed advice and support. The father of one youngster, the late, great Tommy Kitching phoned me to regale with the detailed advice and tips Woody had given to his son before making his debut for the Development Team - so, not even the first team. It went even as far as treating different sides of the Riverside pitch in different ways and about how he should pace himself through the game, specifically the first 20 mins.
What impressed Tommy was that Woodgate knew in detail all about his son's abilities, strengths and wanted to take him aside and give a long talk to him to impart lots of detailed knowledge and it really helped. Tommy had never come across anything like this before and so had to pick up the phone and tell me.
The Woodgate I have seen since becoming manager, is a young, dynamic, modern coach, Making mistakes, yes but learning and taking things on board all the time. He has an ethos but he will adapt and change that ethos. He studies tactics but he also studies people. He knows his players. He knows his own flaws and mistakes from the past and seems determined that his players should not fall into the same holes.
He is really determined. Very driven. And learning on the job. I think he can become a top manager with Boro.
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That’s really commendable and not too surprising but we are dicing with danger by grasping this ‘project’ . Great if he comes good but if he doesn’t cut it the consequences are unfathomable . Huge risk !
 
fmttmadmin said:
He impressed me this season when coming into contact with him.
I have said many times how I saw a changed man when he returned to the football club. From that moment he appeared focused and driven. The old Woodgate had gone. I think his father and family played a major role in this.
I have said before how I was told about how Woodgate as a player would watch the progress of youngsters at the club and offer them detailed advice and support. The father of one youngster, the late, great Tommy Kitching phoned me to regale with the detailed advice and tips Woody had given to his son before making his debut for the Development Team - so, not even the first team. It went even as far as treating different sides of the Riverside pitch in different ways and about how he should pace himself through the game, specifically the first 20 mins.
What impressed Tommy was that Woodgate knew in detail all about his son's abilities, strengths and wanted to take him aside and give a long talk to him to impart lots of detailed knowledge and it really helped. Tommy had never come across anything like this before and so had to pick up the phone and tell me.
The Woodgate I have seen since becoming manager, is a young, dynamic, modern coach, Making mistakes, yes but learning and taking things on board all the time. He has an ethos but he will adapt and change that ethos. He studies tactics but he also studies people. He knows his players. He knows his own flaws and mistakes from the past and seems determined that his players should not fall into the same holes.
He is really determined. Very driven. And learning on the job. I think he can become a top manager with Boro.
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That is great and commendable from Woody Rob, but if he's so detail orientated about the youngsters why did he identify two fullbacks / wingbacks as his first signings, who have been in the main, well below the required standard when we appear to have had two much better prospects in the the squad anyway?
 
Caesium137 said:
That is great and commendable from Woody Rob, but if he's so detail orientated about the youngsters why did he identify two fullbacks / wingbacks as his first signings, who have been in the main, well below the required standard when we appear to have had two much better prospects in the the squad anyway?
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Fair point Caesium. Football and it's idiosyncrasies eh!
Come on Boro!
 
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