Britain to go back to square one under Labour

[Billy Horner]

I hear this argument all the time from tory voters.

Which is absolutely fine to be honest.

The vast majority of Tory voters could never bring themselves to vote Labour (and vice versa). There are very few of the mythical switchers between the two parties. The thing that kills those parties at election time is their own voters staying at home, who usually justify this by saying things like "well they're all the same anyway".

If you look at Blair's 1997 victory and compare it to the 1992 election, the first thing you notice is that 2.3m people fewer voted in '97 than 5 years earlier. While Labour's total vote did increase by 2m overall, the Tory vote collapsed by 4.5m, which is what turned a routine Labour victory into a landslide.

Interestingly, 800k people voted for the newly formed Referendum Party (forerunner of UKIP), who I presume might otherwise have voted Tory. Whilst small in number, I bet that will have tipped the balance in a few constituencies too. That might be a similar situation to Reform at the next election.

I've stopped trying to argue with Tory voters who trot out the "all the same" line. If it helps them justify staying at home, that's fine by me.

 

[Omega]

There is no "board narrative" but I guess there is a consensus across the nation right now, that's what you are experiencing.

You are of course welcome to whatever view you choose, but once you decide to air that view in public it's open to scrutiny. If your view is based on ignorance of the evidence (and it is) then I'm the kind of person that will call that out. If that offends, it's not meant to, I just have a low tolerance for ignorance, in a digital age where it' really easy to research good sources and find evidence.

Life's too short to pretend ignorant and bias views are equally worthy of informed, evidence based ones. Nothing personal, that's just my opinion, it might get some peoples backs up, but I'm absolutely comfortable with that.

You don’t offended me at all. I can only speak from my own experience. consevtives helped my dad back in the 80s helped with loans to set up own businesses let him buy our council house which he sold and made good money but they did a lot of harm to others. I know they will have helped their mates a lot more but I belive they are all the same in that way as in helping their mates and themselfs first

 

[Omega]

Yet again people saying or trying to say I am conservative because I say they are all the same. I’ll say it again thank you for the genuine reply’s for the others you don’t know me or who I vote for but you do put me off Labour

 

[BoroMart]

You don’t offended me at all. I can only speak from my own experience. consevtives helped my dad back in the 80s helped with loans to set up own businesses let him buy our council house which he sold and made good money but they did a lot of harm to others. I know they will have helped their mates a lot more but I belive they are all the same in that way as in helping their mates and themselfs first

Right to buy scheme was an abomination, it has led to a world where there is a huge shortage of council housing, and that service has effectively been privatised off to the rich. So your Dad may have been a winner, but there are 100 undeserving losers for every one of your Dad. Bigger picture is more important than individual cases.

There is no evidence that Labour have done similar get rich quick schemes. Where is the labour VIP Lane scandal, or the privatisation scandals, or council house scandals?

As has already been posted on here there are reams of evidence that labour presided over better economic performance, healthcare, police, schools, pretty much everything that the average person really cares about.

How many Tory privatisations have improved services, and reduced consumer costs? How many have led to massive profits for private companies, often with shares owned by Tory MPs, friends and family.

 

[m3t4tr0n]

You don’t offended me at all. I can only speak from my own experience. consevtives helped my dad back in the 80s helped with loans to set up own businesses let him buy our council house which he sold and made good money but they did a lot of harm to others. I know they will have helped their mates a lot more but I belive they are all the same in that way as in helping their mates and themselfs first

The flip side of that of course is, the short term thing there that helped your dad robbed the country of swathes of affordable housing. It put that stack of assets into private hands, originally to the previous tenants but ultimately many are now owned by a few very rich people and even corporations. Much like the privatisation of our utilities.

The problem with things like this is you can't keep doing it, and once the next lot of assets are consolidated into the control of the few, then what are we left with ?

 

[Billy Horner]

Yet again people saying or trying to say I am conservative because I say they are all the same. I’ll say it again thank you for the genuine reply’s for the others you don’t know me or who I vote for but you do put me off Labour

Don't know if that's aimed at me but, if it was, I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was replying to Laughing's post about people he knows who vote Tory.

 

[BoroMart]

The flip side of that of course is, the short term thing there that helped your dad robbed the country of swathes of affordable housing. It put that stack of assets into private hands, originally to the previous tenants but ultimately many are now owned by a few very rich people and even corporations. Much like the privatisation of our utilities.

The problem with things like this is you can't keep doing it, and once the next lot of assets are consolidated into the control of the few, then what are we left with ?

It was a tactical vote winner and method of destroying the council house system. There was no strategic thought about council housing. Weirdly those who supported the tories at the last election often trotted out the lack of council housing as a problem, but they blamed that on immigrants rather than the fact the tories sold them off and refused to invest in new ones.

 

[Laughing]

Which is absolutely fine to be honest.

The vast majority of Tory voters could never bring themselves to vote Labour (and vice versa). There are very few of the mythical switchers between the two parties. The thing that kills those parties at election time is their own voters staying at home, who usually justify this by saying things like "well they're all the same anyway".

If you look at Blair's 1997 victory and compare it to the 1992 election, the first thing you notice is that 2.3m people fewer voted in '97 than 5 years earlier. While Labour's total vote did increase by 2m overall, the Tory vote collapsed by 4.5m, which is what turned a routine Labour victory into a landslide.

Interestingly, 800k people voted for the newly formed Referendum Party (forerunner of UKIP), who I presume might otherwise have voted Tory. Whilst small in number, I bet that will have tipped the balance in a few constituencies too. That might be a similar situation to Reform at the next election.

I've stopped trying to argue with Tory voters who trot out the "all the same" line. If it helps them justify staying at home, that's fine by me.

I think it is said for a different reason though Billy. It's not that they can't bring themselves to vote Labour, which they can't. It's more to do wit htheir ideology being exposed for what it is.

They are all the same trope means it's not their fault that the tories have killed hundreds of thousands of people who didn't need to die.

It's the same logic used to explain that bad parents can't feed their own children, or if they can't afford them stop having them. It excuses a voting behaviour exposed for what it really is.

 

[Frozen Horse]

Which is absolutely fine to be honest.

The vast majority of Tory voters could never bring themselves to vote Labour (and vice versa). There are very few of the mythical switchers between the two parties. The thing that kills those parties at election time is their own voters staying at home, who usually justify this by saying things like "well they're all the same anyway".

If you look at Blair's 1997 victory and compare it to the 1992 election, the first thing you notice is that 2.3m people fewer voted in '97 than 5 years earlier. While Labour's total vote did increase by 2m overall, the Tory vote collapsed by 4.5m, which is what turned a routine Labour victory into a landslide.

Interestingly, 800k people voted for the newly formed Referendum Party (forerunner of UKIP), who I presume might otherwise have voted Tory. Whilst small in number, I bet that will have tipped the balance in a few constituencies too. That might be a similar situation to Reform at the next election.

I've stopped trying to argue with Tory voters who trot out the "all the same" line. If it helps them justify staying at home, that's fine by me.

I think what you say is probably true.
It's not an argument that would convince anyone to vote Tory, but it might demotivate some who might vote Labour.

I suspect this is a tactic the Tories may use a bit in the next year: an exercise in damage limitation. Before the '97 election, I recall "don't give Blair a blank cheque" type message coming from the Tories: an acceptance that they were going to lose; a recognition that their own record/policies couldn't be sold to the electorate, and thus a recognition that their best hope lay in minimising loses by encouraging Labour voters to stay home.

 

[festa5]

There's probably a quite a bit of cognitive dissonance going on with tory voters too right now.

Most presumably voted tory because they genuinely believed they would do a good job and it would be best for the country, particularly the economy.

All the evidence shows nothing could be further from the truth. But people don't like accepting they're wrong or that they've made an error of judgement.

And they certainly don't when non-tory voters in the more recent general elections told them in advance, very clearly, repeatedly, what the tories were like and have now been proven right. It makes their error of judgement even more pronounced, because everything was very predictable, all the evidence was there, and they chose to ignore it for whatever reason.

Far better to convince yourself that Labour would have been no different than have to accept you've been completely duped by unconvincing con artists, who everyone else was pointing out were con artists.

 

[Andy_W]

I see Sunak is stating we will be back to square one under Labour if we don't stick to his plan. Surely being on square one is got to be better than where this government has got us at the moment.

Square 1 would be good, since the Tories dived on every snake possible, burned every ladder including the massive EU ladder made of titanium, flipped the board over, ***ed on it and then blew it up.

 

[mercury_redstone7]

The right place to make a fresh start, this bunch of degenerates have run the place into the ground. I would send them to Rwanda along with their voters.

 

[BoroMart]

There's probably a quite a bit of cognitive dissonance going on with tory voters too right now.

Most presumably voted tory because they genuinely believed they would do a good job and it would be best for the country, particularly the economy.

All the evidence shows nothing could be further from the truth. But people don't like accepting they're wrong or that they've made an error of judgement.

great point, the easy route out is to claim they're all the same, rather than question your own values, beliefs, and if you were duped.

 

[asredastheycome]

I see Sunak is stating we will be back to square one under Labour

Better than going to hell in a blue handcart.