Bitcoin News Thread

Volatility and risk are not the same thing - Warren Buffett.

Blackrock and Fidelity have brought out reports that make it clear adding around 2% of Bitcoin to your portfolio gives compounded upside and improves the sharpe ratio.

Of course if people YOLO into an asset with a 70% VOL then they deserve all they get.
But that isn't exclusive to crypto.
Most Ark Invest/Cathie Wood investors are sitting on huge losses.
Volatility brings out the naive and inexperienced investor wanting to get rich quick.
That is not the assets fault, it is a lack of education.
Yes, volatility and risk are not the same, but with BTC they're both very high, not many would be saying otherwise, certainly not people like Warren Buffett.

With volatility comes risk, some of that risk can be partially mitigated with time, but even with less volatile stocks or indexes that is far from a given, so is going to be less case with something like BTC.

Yes, 2% is probably ok, maybe up to 5%, depends when you're buying I suppose, but what's your % been on BTC over time?

You did the YOLO back in 2016 of course.

Yeah ARKK had a nightmare, they missed on practically every punt, and sold out early on the big winners and they look like they're going nowhere now. People buying after their crazy growth expecting to get rich quick deserve what they get, loads will be down 60%. Bitcoin has dropped a lot more than 60% numerous times though, that's what puts me off it when we're near what looks like a high price.
 
To get to 10x would need an absolutely insane bull run, where people are constantly buying at higher and higher prices, and who is going to be doing that, and why? The guys who made a fortune got in at 1-10k, are they going to be buying at 100k, or will they be selling?
It needs less people selling, but people and companies will have target prices etc.
This is fundamentally not understanding how or why investments are made. If you think Bitcoin price is going to increase by 10% and you think that is a higher percent than cash, stocks or gold then it doesn't matter what the current price is, you get a 10% increase. We're past the point in thinking in bitcoins and at the point where you are thinking in terms of your investment and return. The S&P 500 is at 5,830 but nobody actually cares about that number. People investing their £200 per month will buy £200 worth of S&P and hope that in a year it is worth £220. Bitcoin is the same. You won't go out an buy 1 bitcoin, you'll invest £200 in bitcoin. Investors invest for lots of different reasons. They don't have target prices, they have target returns and they have risk appetites. For some investors bitcoin will be too risky but higher risk gives higher reward and plenty of investors want higher rewards.

Bitcoin is a completely different asset class to stocks and shares but some of the behaviour is similar. Tesla has a stock price way above the value of its assets and cashflows because people believe it will be worth more in the future. It is speculative investing. Some of the price is driven by the current situation but a lot of it is driven by speculation. People buy rare art or whisky/wine and then put it in storage. The reason the value of those things are going up is because of scarcity. The utility value is tiny. Neither of those things are the primary utility for those assets being created but that is why people are purchasing them. Gold has utility in jewellery and electronics but people buy gold for speculation/scarcity as much as for the utility. Bitcoin has a utility, it is speculative and it is scarcer than gold, art and tesla stocks.

To get to 10x just needs regular investing. The price is derived from what people are willing to pay for it. If people aren't selling, which if it is being held by institutions the majority won't be. Pension funds etc move slowly. In that case the small amount available makes the value go up very quickly. The supply of bitcoin on exchanges has dropped massively over the last year because institutions have to hold the assets their customers have in their portfolio. The more it drops, the less is available to buy and the higher the price goes. 10x is easily possible even in a short time frame.
 
Not sure what is funny about that. I didn't say it would or that it is likely. I said it is possible. Crypto as an asset class is 1% of Stocks. There is a lot of room for growth.

You said easily possible in a short time frame, I find that hilarious.
 
Buy a nano ledger it’s like a USB stick that has a 24 unique password system so it’s no possible to crack it. I’ve liquidated some but I was fortunate enough to have shares in my previous company that I chose to liquidate as they’d kind of hit a price plateau. Chose to keep most of crypto as it’ll increase in price much more. I’d advise not to hold on coinbase as they’re not your coins. Put it on nano Ledger they belong to you now. I have bits of pensions from various jobs but not much. I should try pull them together. Coinbase is pretty secure but it open to hacking. Your nano cannot be hacked. Are you looking to buy atm?
I've got about £6k in crypto, mainly BTC and ETH with a few smaller punts. Have two relatively small pensions, one with a major pensions provider and the other a SIPP, mostly invested in divi-paying companies with the divos reinvested. Think I'd probably like a bit more in crypto but I'm not tech savvy and am nervous of the idea of a nano ledger.
 
I don't see it either, we're only up 2.5x from the 2018 peak, or 7x since covid, but everything tech related has gone wild since covid, and loads think we're in a bubble. BTC is still not much higher than the 21 peak etc, and if the bubble bursts on other stocks then it will take BTC with it I think. i.e if stocks crash 20-30% (which is more than possible) then I can see BTC doing double that.

Obviously a lot of that gain was more people becoming aware, and people being given free money to punt on things like this, but everyone has heard of it now and there is no more free money coming, quite the opposite I think.

To get to 10x would need an absolutely insane bull run, where people are constantly buying at higher and higher prices, and who is going to be doing that, and why? The guys who made a fortune got in at 1-10k, are they going to be buying at 100k, or will they be selling?
It needs less people selling, but people and companies will have target prices etc.

From here ~70k, I would say if it's gone up 100%/ 1x in 5 years, without any crashes then that would be a great return. Could it do better? Sure, but it could crash too. I aint buying at 70k though, no way.
For me personally I would probably want to be aiming for getting in at the next crash or ~40k and hoping it gets to 100k in 5 years, who knows if I will get that chance, but I won't be that fussed if I don't or if it rockets from 70k and I miss out.
All the tech companies I worked for that floated weee not profitable and their billions valuations were based on ARR. they’re therefore risky my previous company wee valued at $9billion yet they ere not in profit at least for 2 more years.
I've got about £6k in crypto, mainly BTC and ETH with a few smaller punts. Have two relatively small pensions, one with a major pensions provider and the other a SIPP, mostly invested in divi-paying companies with the divos reinvested. Think I'd probably like a bit more in crypto but I'm not tech savvy and am nervous of the idea of a nano ledger.
you shouldn’t store it anywhere else really. Exchanges and online wallets are open to hacking and the exchange could go bust so offline wallet is the only truly safe place
 
You said easily possible in a short time frame, I find that hilarious.
There’s new cryptos being develop regularly that can actually go 1000% in a short time. I sense you’re a little bitter due to your dismistle of peoples opinions on a subject they understand more. One of the reasons the finance industry has taken so long to wake up is due to this bitterness and arrogance as they felt threatened by a new more advanced system. I offered to help you with some of the process areas if you needed it but you were a tad passive aggressive but wanted me to explain myself around my investments as if you were looking to pick at some fault. You have mocked the potential growth I mentioned and others which is based on financiers that are your imdustry superiors. You condescendingly said I don’t need help I’ve traded for years and work in finance. Yet its a technology investment which you know nothing about. If you’ve been investing for 25 years and work in finance you’re not good at picking a winner as you ought to be retired. 25 years investing with financial insight you wouldn’t be asking about putting a few quid into BTC then being rude to ppl. Can’t deal with rude people who you offer help to. Crypto has flew up since we last messaged yesterday when you were demanding of info on my life, were rude, condescending and arrogant to me and others when I offered my time to help you. Luddites never learn and fail to move with the times. It’s been blowing up overnight and is hitting a major long term bull run.
 
I've got about £6k in crypto, mainly BTC and ETH with a few smaller punts. Have two relatively small pensions, one with a major pensions provider and the other a SIPP, mostly invested in divi-paying companies with the divos reinvested. Think I'd probably like a bit more in crypto but I'm not tech savvy and am nervous of the idea of a nano ledger.
It’s not to hard but is a bit scary when you don’t know what to do. If you buy one I’ll show you what to do if you want. It’s the only safe way to store it
 
Possibly the best documentary I've seen on the subject of Bitcoin and Money.
If you have ever wondered what Bitcoin is and why it is so important then this is worth an hour of your time.

It also covers the history of money and why the current money we use is broken beyond repair.
So if you want to know why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, why although people are getting paid more they can't afford their bills this is the documentary for you.

You should come away from it realising that the daily price movements of Bitcoin is just a noise.
What matters is that over the long term it's price has no top because our current money is being printed and devalued into oblivion.


(Don't be put off by some of the religious nonsense).
 
There’s new cryptos being develop regularly that can actually go 1000% in a short time. I sense you’re a little bitter due to your dismistle of peoples opinions on a subject they understand more. One of the reasons the finance industry has taken so long to wake up is due to this bitterness and arrogance as they felt threatened by a new more advanced system. I offered to help you with some of the process areas if you needed it but you were a tad passive aggressive but wanted me to explain myself around my investments as if you were looking to pick at some fault. You have mocked the potential growth I mentioned and others which is based on financiers that are your imdustry superiors. You condescendingly said I don’t need help I’ve traded for years and work in finance. Yet its a technology investment which you know nothing about. If you’ve been investing for 25 years and work in finance you’re not good at picking a winner as you ought to be retired. 25 years investing with financial insight you wouldn’t be asking about putting a few quid into BTC then being rude to ppl. Can’t deal with rude people who you offer help to. Crypto has flew up since we last messaged yesterday when you were demanding of info on my life, were rude, condescending and arrogant to me and others when I offered my time to help you. Luddites never learn and fail to move with the times. It’s been blowing up overnight and is hitting a major long term bull run.

This is what always bemuses me about those promoting Bitcoin in that they remind of those pushing the flat earth agenda. This idea that everyone who isn't lumping into Bitcoin is an idiot sounds just like a pump and dump tactic from yourself and your ilk.

I'm not bitter that I didn't get in on Bitcoin at the early stage, I also missed Berkshire Hathway, Apple and Microsoft but I don't lose any sleep over it.

With regards to your sanctimonious comment about retiring, as I've said on here before previously, I actually retired aged 45 but after a year I realised that I wasn't ready to retire so I returned and now I am working for the enjoyment only under my own terms.

Instead of seeing my post as rude, perhaps you could just acknowledge that there are others who don't share your view that this sector is going to reach 10x gains in the coming 5-10 years, especially as this is just on a hunch. I feel that many of these so called experts that you are leaning on are doing nothing more than a classic pump and dump and you are either part of that scheme or you are incredibly naive.
 
Fidelity's most recent research is I think is very fair and very informative for beginners and experienced investors alike.


For many years they and Blackrock have been running simulations for their clients and one of the main metrics they use when putting together a portfolio is sharpe ratio, which measure risk vs reward.
The higher the ratio the better, so this table caught my eye:

1730377493853.png

And these parts:

1730377600372.png


1730377649624.png
 
So, they way I see it, Bitcoin is more like buying gold: its value should be the same, at least, for its entire lifespan. Its value in £ or $ fluctuates only because they are constantly inflating. I did think of investing in gold for the same reason: not to make money but to just make sure I kept the value of what I already have.

How does a man start to dip his toe in this murky world?
Will bitcoin be ravaged by Quantum computing by the end of the decade?
 
So, they way I see it, Bitcoin is more like buying gold: its value should be the same, at least, for its entire lifespan. Its value in £ or $ fluctuates only because they are constantly inflating. I did think of investing in gold for the same reason: not to make money but to just make sure I kept the value of what I already have.

How does a man start to dip his toe in this murky world?
Will bitcoin be ravaged by Quantum computing by the end of the decade?

Yes that is basically it. Our current fiat system (pounds, dollars) is fatally flawed because the people in power can print as much as they want out of thin air.
This devalues the currency and causes inflation.

This also causes The Cantillion Effect, where those closes to the money printer get even more rich, as they take the fiat money that is becoming more worthless and buy hard assets that can't be devalued and us plebs are stuck with inflation. You need to protect yourself of this, even if it's just a small investment in a hard asset.


For a long time now Gold has been seen as the best "Store of Value". But this obviously didn't happen overnight. Over time we as a society decided Gold was a store of value.
It is mined out of the ground at around 2% increase a year, so it's inflation rate is just 2%, whilst fiat currencies in time of economic stress or war can be printed at over 10% more currency a year, making it more and more worthless against hard assets/stores of value.

The problems people have with Bitcoin is:
1. They can't physically see it. But we live in a digital world where most of the money we have we can't see (I may carry £50 of bank notes around with me), and Banks are only required to hold around 5% of your money (and loan out/invest the rest).
2. It's volatile. This is just due to it's market cap being far less than Gold. Once it reaches Gold's market cap (5 to 10 years imo) then it will have Gold's volatility.

Bitcoin now has around 1.7% inflation due to the new Bitcoin mined over the next 4 years. Next halving that will be cut to 0.85% then halved again in another four years and so on..
So the supply becomes less. That won't matter if there is no demand.
But Blackrock's recent research shows that 4% of Boomers are invested in it, whilst 84% of millennials/gen-z have some investment in it.
Over the next two decades there will be the biggest transfer of wealth ever seen from Boomers to their kids and grandkids.
So the demand will be there at a time when supply will be grinding to a halt.
Hence, some see Bitcoin as a long term store of value due to it being a harder asset than fiat and also you will a massive supply/demand dynamic in play in years to come.

Some people will never see a use for it, that's fine.

But depending where you live in the world it can be:

1. A long term store of value which protects you against excess money printing.
2. A way to keep money away from corrupt governments who can seize your money or tell banks to withhold your money.
3. A cheaper way to transfer money in 3rd world countries that rely on the likes of Western Union that take a huge fee.

But it's volatility will remain, which is major headache of inexperience investors who have a habit of buying high and selling low.
Which is which Blackrock/Fidelity advise just a small allocation to it.
A small amount will go a long way once compound over a decade or two.

Buying and storing it is still a pain but over the years it will become far more user friendly just as the internet and smartphones have become.
I have no issues buying and storing a very tiny amount on exchanges but there are risks.
Bitcoiners tend to store it on hardware wallets (such as Trezor) but they are not exactly user friendly.
If you want to go down the rabbit hole I would advise lots of YouTube tutorials.
I first learned about Bitcoin in 2012 but wasn't comfortable to invest in it until 2016.
It takes time.

One last thing, like any asset:
Only buy what you are comfortable with. Being able to sleep easy at night is more important.
But never fully sell out.
If you say put 1% of your money into it, once it doubles take out your investment and let the rest ride for a couple of decades,
or keep selling bits every time it doubles. That way you are taking profit but staying in the game.

Oh....Quantum Computing.
There's plans in place against that.
But if QC is invented that break all codes, then we will have bigger things to worry about.
 
Last edited:
Yes that is basically it. Our current fiat system (pounds, dollars) is fatally flawed because the people in power can print as much as they want out of thin air.
This devalues the currency and causes inflation.
The can't do the first, because of the second
 
Flying today. All-time high?

Yes.
Rumours of a nation state, maybe UAE or Qatar buying heavily.

Then Senator Lummis suggesting that the U.S may buy 1M (not $1M) BTC over the next 4 years, and Microstrategy rising another $42B to buy over the next 3 years.

This at a time only 900 new Bitcoins are mined each day (and 450 in 4 years).

"It's going up forever Deirdre".
 
it'll probably be a good 4 years for crypto until the US can rid itself of Trump and actually bring some regulation and safety to the market
 
it'll probably be a good 4 years for crypto until the US can rid itself of Trump and actually bring some regulation and safety to the market

Firstly, don't get Bitcoin and Crypto confused.
They are not the same thing.
It's like comparing an Apple iPhone with a Chinese knock off that doesn't work and the logo falls off.

In America there are now 11 Bitcoin funds , backed by the likes of Blackrock.
They have taken more money in their first 10 months than the Gold funds have taken in 19 years.
Around 12,000 institutions have invested in them including state pension funds.

Every 4 year cycle maybe 6 to 10 "Cryptos" outperform Bitcoin. Out of thousands of them.
But knowing beforehand which they will be is near impossible and by the time the sheep have piled into them simply because they are going up they are now at their top.
Then they crash as the people behind them pull the plug.
None of them ever get back to that high again and some disappear.
This is where people who don't know any better lose their shirt.

Bitcoin just keeps doing it's thing. Getting bigger. Becoming less volatile. Eating fiat currencies like the apex predator it is.
 
For a casual person I would stay away from anything other than Bitcoin and Ethereum.

I've made quite a bit of money with Bitcoin and Ethereum over the years and have a small investment in both still (which has done well over last few days!)

I actually first started to mess about with Bitcoin 10 years ago in 2014.... I used to get quite depressed I didn't hold what I had back then (i'd be very well off if I did) but realistically no one knew how it would fare long term and very few people held their coins in full from that time. If they had of done, Bitcoin certainly wouldn't have taken off. I know people from back then who were literally buying t-shirts etc for a few bitcoin at a time.
 
Back
Top