Bercow defects to Labour - Did not see that coming

No, the people were asked to vote FOR a candidate, usually representing a party.
The rules are unmistakably clear.
More people voted for something other than a Conservative government when Cameron first got in and there was still a Con ruled govt. As part of a coalition that is inevitable in PR, where there is virtually always a government where more people voted FOR something other than for it.

The rules are very clear and they are undemocratic for the reasons already set out. I’m not sure I follow the rest of your post to be honest, it doesn’t make sense. You seem to be arguing that coalition governments are a reason that PR is worse than FPTP. Why? It isn’t borne out by any evidence or studies. Coalitions are usually stable, and there is no evidence of persistent instability in countries that use PR. Instead, voters are more accurately represented.

Your theoretical points are just that, not playing the man, merely responding to him.. Hope that helps.

You make outlandish statements that I’ve been ‘caught out’ and that I’m asserting that all previous elections should be null and void. I show that up for the nonsense it is. You then talk about semantics, pedantry and theoretical points because you haven’t the intellectual capacity to respond in any other way. So yes it helps greatly.
 
The rules are very clear and they are undemocratic for the reasons already set out. I’m not sure I follow the rest of your post to be honest, it doesn’t make sense. You seem to be arguing that coalition governments are a reason that PR is worse than FPTP. Why? It isn’t borne out by any evidence or studies. Coalitions are usually stable, and there is no evidence of persistent instability in countries that use PR. Instead, voters are more accurately represented.



You make outlandish statements that I’ve been ‘caught out’ and that I’m asserting that all previous elections should be null and void. I show that up for the nonsense it is. You then talk about semantics, pedantry and theoretical points because you haven’t the intellectual capacity to respond in any other way. So yes it helps greatly.
Outlandish, what a sensitive soul you are, the rest is just your opinion., goodnight, watch the Tories don't bite.😀
 
Haven't read the rest of this thread but Bercow defecting to Labour does not surprise me at all ... During the end of his tenure as Speaker, one could argue he seemed biased in empathising with the opposition more during each PMQs he chaired.. particularly the Remain crowd who passionately opposed Johnson and his gang. You got the feeling he became more estranged from the party he had been a member of for such a long time and this was only a matter of time.

.. apparently, his wife/partner is a Socialist?? Sounds like he gradually was persuaded over time that he belongs in the Centre ground having initially being a Thatcherite during his earlier days as MP within the Tory party! He also does a fabulous Tony Benn impression. :ROFLMAO:

I saw a recent interview he did with Alastair Campbell and he more or less admitted he is now more aligned with the Labour Party, gradually become disaffected with his own party having seen the route they have taken particularly since Brexit, having the likes of Johnson in power of the party and PM has irked him considerably.

Welcome aboard Mr Bercow. Fancy giving Mr Starmer a run for his money?? Appears the more Johnson is in the news for being an ar5ehole, they fly further in the polls while Labour/etc drop like a stone. Any idea how to help us provide a real opposition and eventually elect a Govt with actual human beings?? :ROFLMAO::unsure:(y)
 
I think it's more the fact that the the Tory party has gone so far right that even a moderate left Labour is closer to his 'one nation tory' notion than the Tory Party

It's both. Which is the predictable outcome when one party obsessively chases the mythical "centre".
 
No, the people were asked to vote FOR a candidate, usually representing a party.
The rules are unmistakably clear.
More people voted for something other than a Conservative government when Cameron first got in and there was still a Con ruled govt. As part of a coalition that is inevitable in PR, where there is virtually always a government where more people voted FOR something other than for it.
The only way to be progressive as a country is to have coalition, you need more than one parties views pressing their ideology on the country

PR is the only way to truly represent the vote
 
There are imperfections with FPTP, but it is clear and simple, is understood and does give a result that more people voted FOR than anything else.

Not necessarily. And I don't even mean in the "more people voted against the gov than for it" sense.

See the 1951 UKPGE. Labour had 13.9m votes and got 295 seats. The tories 13.7m votes getting them 321 seats.

It's something that can happen in our system if a party stacks up loads of votes in seats they've already won. Whether you win a constituency with 30% voteshare or 80% voteshare you still just get the 1 seat.
 
I'm not Coluka, remember his name fromrom when I was posting here before on the old board.As for partisan approach, this board is rife with it, labour good Tories bad regardless.

Jesus. I’m only 2 pages into reading this thread and already it is completely transparent what you are all about, the games you want to play and the agenda you want to push. So so so many usernames down the years have come and gone with the exact same style.
Anyway, will read on and hopefully I’ll get to the end and will be proved wrong but it’s all so very familiar so far.
 
Jesus. I’m only 2 pages into reading this thread and already it is completely transparent what you are all about, the games you want to play and the agenda you want to push. So so so many usernames down the years have come and gone with the exact same style.
Anyway, will read on and hopefully I’ll get to the end and will be proved wrong but it’s all so very familiar so far.
Have a little empathy mate. It must be awful to remember Coluka's name 'fromrom'. I don't even know what that means but it sounds absolutely terrifying.
 
It's like At the start of a season everyone knows the rules regarding playoffs, then when a team finishes third with a big points margin over fourth place complaining they should be promoted. Dems the rules boys.😎

Not really. I doubt anybody would support holding a UKPGE with the FPTP rules and then changing it to PR during the count.

It'd be more like people knowing the playoff rules at the start of the one season and then the rules changing before the start of the next season and everyone still knowing about it.

What's the harm in that? Didn't the playoffs used to involve the team 3rd bottom of the 1st division? So we have had playoff rule changes between seasons before anyway.
 
Not really. I doubt anybody would support holding a UKPGE with the FPTP rules and then changing it to PR during the count.

It'd be more like people knowing the playoff rules at the start of the one season and then the rules changing before the start of the next season and everyone still knowing about it.

What's the harm in that? Didn't the playoffs used to involve the team 3rd bottom of the 1st division? So we have had playoff rule changes between seasons before anyway.
Have a little empathy mate. It must be awful to remember Coluka's name 'fromrom'. I don't even know what that means but it sounds absolutely terrifying.
Is that all you've got, a mistake when I was using my phone?. any reasonable person would see it was meant to be one "from.. Be better.
 
Not really. I doubt anybody would support holding a UKPGE with the FPTP rules and then changing it to PR during the count.

It'd be more like people knowing the playoff rules at the start of the one season and then the rules changing before the start of the next season and everyone still knowing about it.

What's the harm in that? Didn't the playoffs used to involve the team 3rd bottom of the 1st division? So we have had playoff rule changes between seasons before anyway.

You have to assume he's a troll. Might be time to use the ignore function again I think.
 
Not really. I doubt anybody would support holding a UKPGE with the FPTP rules and then changing it to PR during the count.

It'd be more like people knowing the playoff rules at the start of the one season and then the rules changing before the start of the next season and everyone still knowing about it.

What's the harm in that? Didn't the playoffs used to involve the team 3rd bottom of the 1st division? So we have had playoff rule changes between seasons before anyway.
My point is until the voting system is changed, everyone knows the system,it seems some only complain when it's the wrong result.Im not saying it shouldn't be changed but the last referendum on it,it was knocked back.
 
it seems some only complain when it's the wrong result.

That's just projection. When has there been any recent results go anything ither than the tories way? You've no idea if the same posters would change their views on FPTP/PR or not.

but the last referendum on it,it was knocked back.

That makes no difference. Before 2016 the last referendum on EU membership was in favour. Besides that wasn't a referendum on PR, just on a different version of FPTP.
 
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