Ben Doak and output from the right forward position

Gunslinger

Gunslinger

Well-known member
12 games, 1 goal and 3 assists

Burgzorg 13 games , 2 goals and no assist from the left

our 2 wide players 3 goals and 3 assists from a combined 25 games it is not efficient enough

In reality is it any better than Jones and Forss could have contributed in the same position?

Asking for a friend
 
Not sure this is worth a response but off the top of my head;
Lath penalty - won by Doak (no assist credited)
Conway 2nd vs Norwich - almost entirely made by Doak (no assist credited)
This is before you look at the space he has constantly created for others and the chances that he has put on a plate but others haven't taken.
 
anth25 said:
Not sure this is worth a response but off the top of my head;
Lath penalty - won by Doak (no assist credited)
Conway 2nd vs Norwich - almost entirely made by Doak (no assist credited)
This is before you look at the space he has constantly created for others and the chances that he has put on a plate but others haven't taken.
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So were counting missed chances or other scenrios where no goals or assist transpired, does that apply to any players output, including Jones and Forss?

Not doubting Doak, just asking what i considered to be a valid point, we are talking about objectivity afterall
 
And to be fair to Burgzorg, he's only started 4 games at LW and he's looked much improved in the last 2 starts. Although yet to be seen whether he can maintain that.

There has been plenty of criticism of Burgzorg prior to that, some of it probably slightly umfair.
 
Gunslinger said:
So were counting missed chances or other scenrios where no goals or assist transpired, does that apply to any players output, including Jones and Forss?

Not doubting Doak, just asking what i considered to be a valid point, we are talking about objectivity afterall
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A winger’s role in a missed chance is now referred to as xA, I believe.
 
anth25 said:
Not sure this is worth a response but off the top of my head;
Lath penalty - won by Doak (no assist credited)
Conway 2nd vs Norwich - almost entirely made by Doak (no assist credited)
This is before you look at the space he has constantly created for others and the chances that he has put on a plate but others haven't taken.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of that but the way in which they appeared to avoid passing the ball to him last night contributed to the worst performance by him in a boro shirt.
I was flabbergasted to be honest because every time Hamilton touched the ball in the second half was a touch to much and robbed us of seeing Doaky figure out how to get past the defenders marshalling him
 
Gunslinger said:
Thanks for that completely useless input
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No problem.

Usually if you ask a silly question, you get a silly answer.

In all honestly though, if you watch Doak, then it's pretty obvious the comparison to Jones is lightyears apart. Doak has more ability in his left pinky, than Jones does altogether.

And as for Forss or Burgzorg...another pointless comparison, because Forss has been pretty much unavailable for the majority of the season, so even if we wanted to play Forss on the 'wing', his injuries/lack of fitness has meant he couldn't.
 
It is a bigger problem that we are so lopsided and fairly one dimensional. We are relatively toothless down the left which makes us easier to defend against by the better teams. We need the left side sorting asap.
 
I think it’s a good point and this is where you have to be careful with statistics.

It’s hard to measure the creativity a player like Doak brings to the team if he is opening a defence up but nobody can take advantage.

He is also still learning so will be up and down at times especially if he is doubled up on like last night.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I think it’s a good point and this is where you have to be careful with statistics.

It’s hard to measure the creativity a player like Doak brings to the team if he is opening a defence up but nobody can take advantage.

He is also still learning so will be up and down at times especially if he is doubled up on like last night.
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The point gunslinger is making is that for all doaks explosive play, the output is quite low. And, he has a point.

What I would say is Doak is a boy and he will get better and better.
 
Now Hull have sacked their Manager: get Ryan Giles in to play down the left, with Doak on the right (y)
 
Chances created per 90 as per fotmob... (xA)
Doak: 2.57 (.27)
Jones: 1.7 (.15)
McGree: 2.7 (.13)
Burgzorg: 0.53 (.13)
Azaz: 3.15 (.26)
Hamilton 1.46 (0.2)

As per the eye test Doak, Azaz and McGree are our best chance creators in "the 3"

Interestingly

Barlaser 2.40 (0.42)
 
Marvanelli said:
Usually if you ask a silly question, you get a silly answer.
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Bit harsh?

We all know Doak's a valuable player and definitely passes the eye test but the stats are the stats.

Compared to 2022 Jones and 2023 Forss in that same position he contributes far less in terms of actual goals/assists.
 
35to39 said:
Bit harsh?
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Harsh?

Honestly, the comparison between Jones and Doak is so far and wide.

And we currently don't have the '2022' Jones. Isaiah Jones when he's been on the pitch this season is a shadow of himself. In fact he's been terrible. Watford away and Norwich away he was a complete waste of space. No wonder he hasn't even been brought off the bench in the last two games.

Forss on the other hand has been unavailable for large parts...so even if we compare him to Doak......what's the point? He's not been available.
 
Marvanelli said:
Harsh?

Honestly, the comparison between Jones and Doak is so far and wide.

And we currently don't have the '2022' Jones. Isaiah Jones when he's been on the pitch this season is a shadow of himself. In fact he's been terrible. Watford away and Norwich away he was a complete waste of space. No wonder he hasn't even been brought off the bench in the last two games.

Forss on the other hand has been unavailable for large parts...so even if we compare him to Doak......what's the point? He's not been available.
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We're in agreement that Doak is the best option on the right, but also that his goals/assist numbers aren't as high as those players I've mentioned who have occupied those positions recently. Both of those things can be true.
 
35to39 said:
We're in agreement that Doak is the best option on the right, but also that his goals/assist numbers aren't as high as those players I've mentioned who have occupied those positions recently. Both of those things can be true.
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The kid's goals and assists would be a lot higher if our players stopped passing the ball out of play when he is on the touchline - he was as frustrated as hell the other night and the only player that looked as if he was going to create / score as well.
 
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