BBC ‘Impartiality’ on Hamas

[coluka]

If you think my post was supporting ISIL or the Taliban you need to read it again.
Are you saying that elected people can commit atrocities with impunity simply because they were elected by the people?

I’ve re read it thanks. I don’t live inside your head so I do not know what you think, your post was not clear on that, In a round about way I presume your post above is possibly suggesting not, but not 100% clear. No, I do not think Israel or any country has the right to commit atrocities with impunity, I would have thought #16 makes that clear. Perhaps you should survey the land before you sow seeds of doubt. They do have a right to respond to HAMAS’s actions the other day though don’t you think! How they go about it is extremely questionable as clearly innocent people are paying the ultimate price for harbouring terrorists. If someone chopped off my grandkids heads, I wouldn’t necessarily be sure my subsequent thoughts and actions would be lawful mind.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Elections almost a generation ago legitimise nobody today in my book. Every country uses its citizens as pawns to varying degrees, whether elected or not but at least those in power can at some point be voted out. HAMAS, Taliban, ISIL all rule by terror. Israel have the right to react to the events the other day, their methods and what may be about to happen, in my view may well be outside of international law and if it is, they need to be held to account. They wont be of course, which impacts on governments such as ours around the world.

Elections are a bit like MOT certificates. Your car can pass one day and be unroadworthy the next day. The same is true of Netanyahu. Why can he respond to these attacks with war crimes but Hamas have no right to respond to the years and years of persecution, slaughter and land grabbing. What can they do? Who do they complain to? Is anybody listening to them? All the evidence says no.

Let's not forget that Charles de Gaulle defied his country's leader when he persuaded hundreds of thousands of people to defy the armistice and fight on, bombing bridges and railways and aiding the allies in whatever way they could. France meanwhile, were sending Jews to German camps.

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson

It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn, writes the BBC's World Affairs editor.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am willing to bet that during the Iraq War they referred to Al Qaeda etc as terrorists. If anyone can confirm - or have those articles fallen down the memory hole.

Nor should they.

The dispute between Palestine and Israel over the disputed land is lengthy and bloody, with atrocities by both sides.

Israel have a very patchy record in terms of the legitimacy of their actions in the Middle East, but criticism seems to be met with accusations of anti-semitism from some quarters.

I'm not sure what Israel will do next, but an all out invasion isn't out of the question.

The killings and murders will continue for a long while yet sadly.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Have these Israeli claims about decapitated babies and children ever been properly verified? I think Biden even mentioned he’d seen evidence yesterday but then had to backtrack, or his people did. And admit that he was lying, essentially.

 

[coluka]

Elections are a bit like MOT certificates. Your car can pass one day and be unroadworthy the next day. The same is true of Netanyahu. Why can he respond to these attacks with war crimes but Hamas have no right to respond to the years and years of persecution, slaughter and land grabbing. What can they do? Who do they complain to? Is anybody listening to them? All the evidence says no.

Let's not forget that Charles de Gaulle defied his country's leader when he persuaded hundreds of thousands of people to defy the armistice and fight on, bombing bridges and railways and aiding the allies in whatever way they could. France meanwhile, were sending Jews to German camps.

I do not disagree that Netanyahu is questionable despite being elected, like any politician is, their actions are not always positive as we see today. Land grabbing is not right. Nobody will solve the hatred that exists between neighbours, no treaty will heal any wounds. There is no answer that will sort this, because a peace is not wanted by terrorists, they do not want a negotiated peace.

 

[TeaCider]

Have these Israeli claims about decapitated babies and children ever been properly verified? I think Biden even mentioned he’d seen evidence yesterday but then had to backtrack, or his people did. And admit that he was lying, essentially.

Israeli military says babies WERE beheaded by Hamas

Israeli Defence Forces spokesman Jonathan Conricus said a coroner who visited the aftermath of the massacre at a kibbutz near Gaza saw the children's bodies and confirmed how they died

www.google.com

The Israeli military have said it happened today.

Apologies for the Daily Mail link, I've also seen it reported in CNN too, though I'm not sure how trustworthy they are either.

 

[Jedi boro]

There is no answer to this as it’s a “war” that’s been raging since biblical times so the hatred ( as that’s what it is) on both sides will never really go away, so unlike in the Ukraine there’s the added religious factor as well.

A top senior Israeli politician described the Palestinians neighbours as not even human the other day. That hatred is just building.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I do not disagree that Netanyahu is questionable despite being elected, like any politician is, their actions are not always positive as we see today. Land grabbing is not right. Nobody will solve the hatred that exists between neighbours, no treaty will heal any wounds. Their is no answer that will sort this, because a peace is not wanted by terrorists, they do not want a negotiated peace.

The terrorists managed to find a solution in 1947. They had a state formed in their name.

That state has used terrorism through the years to expand that state, making life gradually more difficult for the Palestinians. Gaza is now in the same situation that the Jewish ghetto populace experienced in Poland and elsewhere.

We condemn Russian expansionism, and rightly so, and it's time those same voices supporting the Ukrainians supported the Palestinian people.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Israeli military says babies WERE beheaded by Hamas

Israeli Defence Forces spokesman Jonathan Conricus said a coroner who visited the aftermath of the massacre at a kibbutz near Gaza saw the children's bodies and confirmed how they died

www.google.com

The Israeli military have said it happened today.

Apologies for the Daily Mail link, I couldn't find the original BBC one I read it in.

I think the Israeli military say a lot of things, I was just wondering if it had been verified independently. I couldn’t find anything to confirm it online, though I did find a lot of articles saying the White House had had to ‘correct’ what Biden had said about having seen images of it.

For anyone interested, I would follow a journalist called Shaun King, who posts out footage, news reports, first-hand accounts from civilians who are directly involved in these atrocities. Some of his content is very gruesome though so if you don’t want to see the actual effects of indiscriminate bombing and terrorism then don’t look at his account. Especially the stuff he posted from Gaza earlier today.

 

[Nano]

Elections almost a generation ago legitimise nobody today in my book. Every country uses its citizens as pawns to varying degrees, whether elected or not but at least those in power can at some point be voted out. HAMAS, Taliban, ISIL all rule by terror. Israel have the right to react to the events the other day, their methods and what may be about to happen, in my view may well be outside of international law and if it is, they need to be held to account. They wont be of course, which impacts on governments such as ours around the world.

I do agree but they still have widespread support. I'd dare say they have more support in Gaza than our current government does here today. It's further complicated by Palestine being split into two areas, Gaza and the West Bank, and conditions and the situations being different in both. Gaza is much more pro-Hamas than the West Bank but there is enough support in Gaza that Hamas could win a Palestine-wide presidential election.

It doesn't appear to be a situation like the Taliban where only a tiny proportion of the Afghan people support them.

 

[coluka]

The terrorists managed to find a solution in 1947. They had a state formed in their name.

That state has used terrorism through the years to expand that state, making life gradually more difficult for the Palestinians. Gaza is now in the same situation that the Jewish ghetto populace experienced in Poland and elsewhere.

We condemn Russian expansionism, and rightly so, and it's time those same voices supporting the Ukrainians supported the Palestinian people.

So you agree, peace wasn’t sorted in 1947 then. The Palestinian people deserve a state as do the Israelis. I do not think anyone disagrees on that. However, the 2 sides will never agree on boundaries, their hatred will never go away, free elections won’t ever build trust. There really is no solution that is acceptable to both parties. Terror exists on both sides, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. The human race in some parts of this world is beyond becoming civilised because power and control is paramount along with the relative wealth it brings with it. Every country has its unelected gangland rulers, even the UK.

 

[mercury_redstone7]

Netanyahu is ultra right wing and so I think the Israelis always knew he was going to be very hard-line. He has tried to drive them out by making life so difficult to keep living with his policies against the Palestinians.
It was always going to happen, but it surprised everyone how they managed to do something so large without the Israeli intelligence knowing. Disturbing events and this time Israeli citizens having war crimes committed against them.

While Netanyahu is top dog and Hamas are entrenched there will be no peace imho

 

[1finny]

I think the Israeli military say a lot of things, I was just wondering if it had been verified independently. I couldn’t find anything to confirm it online, though I did find a lot of articles saying the White House had had to ‘correct’ what Biden had said about having seen images of it.

For anyone interested, I would follow a journalist called Shaun King, who posts out footage, news reports, first-hand accounts from civilians who are directly involved in these atrocities. Some of his content is very gruesome though so if you don’t want to see the actual effects of indiscriminate bombing and terrorism then don’t look at his account. Especially the stuff he posted from Gaza earlier today.

No it hasn't been verified
And, sadly, it doesn't matter......It's a war - we have propoganda and if you pick a side you pick what to believe.

 

[equaliser]

. Terror exists on both sides, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

And that's why the BBC takes the position it does - entirely correctly. Hamas's actions are barbaric - just as Putin's are. You can call them terrorism or you can call them war crimes, but what matters is that they are reported accurately and factually. That's the BBC's job. It's not its job to allow itself to be emotively brow-beaten into using value-laden terms by politicians such as Sunak who are nakedly trying to leverage a gruesome imbroglio to score points against both Labour and the BBC itself.

 

[Muttley]

Word of The Day = "Imbroglio"

Nice one.

And I agree with the stance that the BBC has taken. There are no good guys in this conflict.

 

[Glover_elbow]

So you agree, peace wasn’t sorted in 1947 then. The Palestinian people deserve a state as do the Israelis. I do not think anyone disagrees on that. However, the 2 sides will never agree on boundaries, their hatred will never go away, free elections won’t ever build trust. There really is no solution that is acceptable to both parties. Terror exists on both sides, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. The human race in some parts of this world is beyond becoming civilised because power and control is paramount along with the relative wealth it brings with it. Every country has its unelected gangland rulers, even the UK.

Completey agree with all of that col effectively both sides are as entrenched as each other with neither willing to compromise. My problem then given all that is the uk government and media should be equally condemning and call out human atrocities on either side.

 

[TeaCider]

I think the Israeli military say a lot of things, I was just wondering if it had been verified independently. I couldn’t find anything to confirm it online, though I did find a lot of articles saying the White House had had to ‘correct’ what Biden had said about having seen images of it.

For anyone interested, I would follow a journalist called Shaun King, who posts out footage, news reports, first-hand accounts from civilians who are directly involved in these atrocities. Some of his content is very gruesome though so if you don’t want to see the actual effects of indiscriminate bombing terrorising, war, then don’t look at his account. Especially the stuff he posted from Gaza earlier today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712460425529372821

Whether you'd class that as independently verified or not, I'm not sure, but that's another source saying it happened.

Sadly.