Bad decision for this statue?

[BlindBoyGrunt]

The marches were very mixed white and non white - but often led and focussed by young people. It is the media that are more intent on splitting a movement that is springing from both white and black communities. It is racism that is the divider, that is driving poverty fo so many minorities in this country and through much of the world.

The only way that change can happen is if white people become involved. People seem to believe that the problem should be solved by black people but that's impossible when the obstacles they face are not their doing. You can sense it can't you Rob? When white people become involved and there is a bit of traction, there is a determined effort to decry the movement, to discredit them at every turn, even to paint them as a Marxist organisation which isn't illegal.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Why not?

 

[Boro in Devon]

An empty plinth is quite a strong statement in itself.

I would agree, however the empty statue to Edward Colston is on Colston Avenue, next to Colston Towers and Colston Hall.
The statue was placed in a quiet area where most people don't notice it. I worked near there for a few years and never realised it was there.

 

[r00fie1]

It is definitely antagonistic and this act is and act of truimphalism.

We are being told by the media that the "far right" is on the rise - well you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be now.

"Triumphalism" for those who have fought long and hard against discrimination, prejudice, bigotry, violence, social exclusion, poverty, racism, colonialism,brutality, denial, injustice and treated like "unpeople".
Lets defend the right to challenge the old order and not be afraid: its not just black lives matter, but all for one and one for all.
The statue is merely a symbol of a wider movement.
Let the racists try to reclaim their flags and colonialist momento`s.
They are on the shifting sands of time and the tide has changed.

 

[A]

I would agree, however the empty statue to Edward Colston is on Colston Avenue, next to Colston Towers and Colston Hall.
The statue was placed in a quiet area where most people don't notice it. I worked near there for a few years and never realised it was there.

I thought they were all being renamed?

 

[r00fie1]

If they really want to peak the racists they should mould one for every corner in the city, but place them on rooftops of 3 or 4 story buildings. High enough so that people can't get up and deface them, but low enough that everyone can see what it is

They raised the Soviet flag on the Reichstag as they liberated Berlin.
Have you seen how high up that was?!
We dont want things out of reach - we want people to see and understand.
For too long we have accepted the status quo without questioning "why".
If it hurts to just step out of our comfort bubbles for one moment - then its a learning curve we need to understand.
It sometimes requires a thunderstorm to make you realise the value of sunshine.
No pain.
No gain.

 

[r00fie1]

I would agree, however the empty statue to Edward Colston is on Colston Avenue, next to Colston Towers and Colston Hall.
The statue was placed in a quiet area where most people don't notice it. I worked near there for a few years and never realised it was there.

The tikker-tape in Bristol says its been a source of tension for many years.....not just since he fell in the water.

 

[Boro in Devon]

I thought they were all being renamed?

Colston school has been renamed. There was a debate about renaming Colston Hall the music venue.
I havent heard any news about the others being renamed, but I think they should consider it.

 

[Boro in Devon]

The tikker-tape in Bristol says its been a source of tension for many years.....not just since he fell in the water.

Yes it has been mentioned for a few years that Colston Hall should have a new name when they were renovating the building, however it never happened. The mayor is not a fan (he is also from the BAME community). There are lots of other areas in Bristol that could cause for concern, such as Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill in Clifton. However they are not supposed to be part of the slavery debate. Not very PC though.

 

[r00fie1]

Yes it has been mentioned for a few years that Colston Hall should have a new name when they were renovating the building, however it never happened. The mayor is not a fan (he is also from the BAME community). There are lots of other areas in Bristol that could cause for concern, such as Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill in Clifton. However they are not supposed to be part of the slavery debate. Not very PC though.

I like the colours of the houses on that terraced street on a hill which you can see from the train as it enters Templ Meads

 

[1finny]

The only way that change can happen is if white people become involved. People seem to believe that the problem should be solved by black people but that's impossible when the obstacles they face are not their doing. You can sense it can't you Rob? When white people become involved and there is a bit of traction, there is a determined effort to decry the movement, to discredit them at every turn, even to paint them as a Marxist organisation which isn't illegal.

We all have a part to play - looking to ‘governments’, black people to resolve the problem is part of the issue.
”For things to change, first I must change“

Take football for instance - so much more powerful if a white captain leads from the front and takes his/her team off. I’ve seen so many instances of players trying to calm their black colleagues down.

 

[BoroMart]

Triumphalism - funny how people complain about the triumphalism of a BLM statue but have nothing to say about the triumphalism of war 'heroes'. I mean they may both be triumphalist, but only one of them offends certain people, so the issue isn't really triumphalism, but triumphalism in the fight against racism.

 

[FatCat]

I like the statue and think it would be a fitting reminder of what occurred there, however I don’t think it will stay because of the way it was placed there without permission. If they had gone about this in the right way then it may have stood a chance of being agreed to. However due to this maverick erection ( never thought I’d use that term) I can only see the powers that be closing ranks and taking the statue down.

 

[TeaCider]

It's rightly been taken down by the council.

They should have a public debate/vote on the fate of the plinth.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

It was only ever a temporary installation designed to spark debate. It has had the desired effect.

 

[r00fie1]

Triumphalism - funny how people complain about the triumphalism of a BLM statue but have nothing to say about the triumphalism of war 'heroes'. I mean they may both be triumphalist, but only one of them offends certain people, so the issue isn't really triumphalism, but triumphalism in the fight against racism.

The "triumphalism" of "War Heroes" like the cenotaph and war memorials across the world, is to honour the dead and those still serving.
Far from "triumphalism" those memorials represent somber moments in history - when countries descended into war as a "solution" to much deeper issues.
Black Lives Matter deserve support and respect, so we dont pay homage to racists and colonialists like Cecil Rhodes and his ilk.


But for those soldiers - mostly young and from working class backgrounds - we pay respect to their sacrifice.
Whether wars are "just" or politicians deserve to be tried for war crimes, we must never forget and always remember them.

 

[indeedido]

My problem with the BLM movement is that I have yet to see any suggestion of how to improve things, there is a lot of anger and outcry but no practical solution. I agree with them that black people have fewer opportunities and are treated unfairly as a whole compared to white people as a whole.



Boromart is right in a sense above in that the poor are being divided into 2 groups, poor white and poor non-white. BLM appears to want to promote opportunities and increase equality for the poor non-whites but accept that the poor whites are ok to stay poor because on average white people are better off than black people. This is where ALM could have a point, but I don't think they know it; the best way to improve the lot of BAME people is to improve the lot of the poor in general. Boromart is correct that equality for all sectors of society are best achieved via socialist policies, fair taxation, increased social mobility and better distribution of wealth.

I don't think that many of the things that BAME suffer from are necessarily due to racism but because they are poor. They suffer the same disadvantages as white people born into poverty. They struggle in school, they struggle to get jobs, they are targeted by police and given harsher sentences due to their economic and social upbringing. There is undoubtedly racism and they have to suffer with poorly educated individuals more than a white person would but I don't think that the majority of the country is racist.

I think that is a brilliant post boromike and I agree with virtually all.
I would only differ slightly in that whilst I agree that the majority of the country is not racist, there is a big minority who are and that definitely includes some of the BAME community (v white and other minorities).
I do think economic disparity is the biggest problem. The gap between ultra rich and the rest of us is simply too wide. I'm not sure a poor white kid from Tower Hamlets or Boro has any more or less chance than a poor black or asian kid in the same place. The key thing is "poor".