At a time of crisis this Government is FAILING

I’m not really disagreeing with you on that. It’s just they’ve taken this approach, Labour May have taken another and things turn out worse or better. The greens may have had us all light a candle and sung kumbaya. Right wing capitalism, left wing socialism doesn’t really matter right now. It’s bigger than that. No one knows the correlation currently. Italy and Spain are suffering massively, as is China - different ideologies, same virus.
now isn’t really the time fo be political about things one way or the other. Let’s do that afterwards and ensure full account is held when it’s beaten.
 
There are legitimate questions to be asked.
Does asking them ‘politicise this’ - not sur
If they are not asked though, future decisions may (stress may) be taken knowing there is going to be no accountability in the short term. That’s not a good place to be for any of us.
 
My take on this is that the government in power has deliberately run down the NHS throughout the time they have been in power. That has put the UK in the position where it cannot respond as well as people would have hoped.

Add to that the government in power did not plan effectively once they were given warning of this upcoming issue.

Add to that the government in power more recently appears to have gone against the advice of the WHO in the way they started to deal with the issue. Probably partly due to lack of resources in the NHS.

That means that the government in power is likely to be culpable of most likely causing additional unnecessary deaths.

At present we do not have the evidence as the situation is not over.

If other parties had been in power for an extended period recently the running down of the NHS capabilities would probably have not occurred as much. That we can state reasonably clearly.

The rest, at present, is a matter of opinions. We will have to wait to see the evidence.

I feel that is a fair summary of the current situation.
 
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My take on this is that the government in power has deliberately run down the NHS throughout the time they have been in power. That has put the UK in the position where it cannot respond as well as people would have hoped.

Add to that the government in power did not plan effectively once they were given warning of this upcoming issue.

Add to that the government in power more recently appears to have gone against the advice of the WHO in the way they started to deal with the issue. Probably partly due to lack of resources in the NHS.

That means that the government in power is likely to be culpable of most likely causing additional unnecessary deaths.

At present we do not have the evidence as the situation is not over.

If other parties had been in power for an extended period recently the running down of the NHS capabilities would probably have not occurred as much. That we can state reasonably clearly.

The rest, at present, is a matter of opinions. We will have to wait to see the evidence.

I feel that is a fair summary of the current situation.
Thats a reasonable assesment Spanishman, the one thing I would disagree with is your assertion that we do not have evidence. Well we don't have absoloute evidence but we can draw strong correlations between where we are now and where Italy were a couple of weeks ago. We are mirroring them almost case by case. That, to be frank, worries me more than anything else.
 
Thats a reasonable assesment Spanishman, the one thing I would disagree with is your assertion that we do not have evidence. Well we don't have absoloute evidence but we can draw strong correlations between where we are now and where Italy were a couple of weeks ago. We are mirroring them almost case by case. That, to be frank, worries me more than anything else.
I would not disagree with you. The only thing I would say is we have to wait and see what happens in the next week or two. We should know a lot more by then. So I suggest that people (including myself) keep their powder dry.

UPDATED: Of course we can have opinions and express them. However, as yet, we do not have conclusive proof.
 
I would not disagree with you. The only thing I would say is we have to wait and see what happens in the next week or two. We should know a lot more by then. So I suggest that people (including myself) keep their powder dry.

UPDATED: Of course we can have opinions and express them. However, as yet, we do not have conclusive proof.
You are right Spansihman. One ray of hope is the quick test which is likely to be available shortly. Any good news is welcome at the minute.
 
I am still absolute none plussed by a couple of things. Firstly that people were flying in from areas of the globe, including China, Northern Italy and Spain till those areas were locked down by their own governments. No one on our side blocked or even tested/checked temperatures of arrivals, so if they had the virus we basically said, ‘welcome Mr Covid please do come in‘. That is criminal on our governments part and surely to do with the science of ‘herd immunity’. Secondly, the idea that the science has apparently changed or not changed depending on which waffle any particular minister spouts. Science doesn’t just change and we were always likely to be hit hard, that is not science, it’s inaction and u-turns by the government alongside deliberate ambiguity on the part of the government’s messages, just look at the confusion in relation to lock down and work.
 
During the biggest global crisis since the Second World War this Government has been sitting on its hands and trying to protect the economy more than the lives of its citizens. We had a head start on the likes of China, Italy and Spain and we did NOT heed their warnings; if this had been tackled head on then the number of deaths would no doubt be significantly less.

Boris Johnson has dithered around trying to keep big business and the markets happy (who just so happen to be the main source of funds for the Tory party) and only acted when he was left with no other choice.

It was suggested in the media that he only enforced the closure of pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc when given an ultimatum by President Macron that he would close the French border to the UK effectively damaging our supply lines. Then, he only enforced a sort of lockdown when senior members of his Cabinet threatened a revolt.

He promised help for the self-employed, of which there are over 5m people in the UK. None has been forthcoming. Workers in many industries are still being made to go to work despite their concerns, and all because he hasn't enforced a strict lockdown. Likewise, the tube trains are rammed and 500 police officers are 'advising' travellers on the trains to only travel where essential.

It's an absolute mess and this Government's decisions (or lack thereof) over recent weeks will sadly sound the death knell for countless people.
I'm sorry but this is all "blame the government it's there fault and not mine" b***ks.

They've said for weeks what's happening and what's going to happen.
They've informed the public at every avenue and given advice and guidelines which have been ignored by a minority.
They told us supermarkets wouldn't run out of good yet idiots went and panic bought anyways.

Do people want the army on every street to enforce a lockdown where if you leave your house will be shot? Because I'd hazard a guess you'd moan about that.

**** politics at the minute people.

And before I'm accused of been a Tory supporter I voted Labour at the last election.
 
I'm sorry but this is all "blame the government it's there fault and not mine" b***ks.

They've said for weeks what's happening and what's going to happen.
They've informed the public at every avenue and given advice and guidelines which have been ignored by a minority.
They told us supermarkets wouldn't run out of good yet idiots went and panic bought anyways.

Do people want the army on every street to enforce a lockdown where if you leave your house will be shot? Because I'd hazard a guess you'd moan about that.

**** politics at the minute people.

Well, they did say they would follow scientific opinion but then they chose which scientific to follow, ignore the majority scientific advice and keep their preferred advice secret and not open it up to peer review, which is not how science works.

More motivated reasoning a la Brexit.

The Right are never good at handling major crises because their mindset is always market over state and the invisible hand will sort everything. So they are slow to respond. That is what appears to have happened here.
 
I'm sorry but this is all "blame the government it's there fault and not mine" b***ks.

They've said for weeks what's happening and what's going to happen.
They've informed the public at every avenue and given advice and guidelines which have been ignored by a minority.
They told us supermarkets wouldn't run out of good yet idiots went and panic bought anyways.

Do people want the army on every street to enforce a lockdown where if you leave your house will be shot? Because I'd hazard a guess you'd moan about that.

**** politics at the minute people.

And before I'm accused of been a Tory supporter I voted Labour at the last election.

Its b***ks supporting the strategy this government has taken, that's a fact. The apologists, those with blind faith are part of the problem and complicit in state killing.

Turning a blind eye doesn't solve the problem.
 
its entirely a numbers game.

There will no doubt be a mortality rate that is deemed acceptable to protect the performance of the stock market and the political careers of some, as well as the costs of keeping the NHS equipped and staffed where we all know it needs to be kept.
They said last week that 20,000 deaths will be a good result!
 
Its b***ks supporting the strategy this government has taken, that's a fact. The apologists, those with blind faith are part of the problem and complicit in state killing.

Turning a blind eye doesn't solve the problem.
It does come across like you are taking the virus problem as a vindication that Tories are bad people like you knew they always were.
Simply irrational.

"complicit in state killing ?" - you serious ?
 
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