Armed police go on strike

The rank and file police officers, who don't have guns, are signing up to the police force in the way you describe in your belittling and supercilious response.

Apologies if my response offended you. However regards to your suggestion of police waiting until “a shot was fired”, I find that ridiculous, again I’m genuinely not meaning to offend you.

Again I’m not exactly sure of your point but if you mean what I think you do (apologies, genuinely not sure) - no the “rank and file” would also not need to take wait until a shot was fired before they took action if they faced with a person with a gun.
 
This stat may bring a bit of perspective on armed policing in the uk.

Between April 22 and March 23 there were 18,395 armed operations by UK police. Of these 18,395 armed operations, police discharged firearms 10 times.a
 
  • Like
Reactions: B_G
Wasn't he suspected of carrying a bomb. I was told in such cases, even if a suspect could be restrained, multiple shots to the head was the way to ensure that explosives could not be set off.

Tragically they got the wrong person.
It was also just after 7/7 the country was basically on a war footing as the threat was very very real.
 
Wasn't he suspected of carrying a bomb. I was told in such cases, even if a suspect could be restrained, multiple shots to the head was the way to ensure that explosives could not be set off.

Tragically they got the wrong person.
That was and still is the tactic in such circumstances.
 
Bloke was a wrong un, driving a car, got stopped, with a gun. Got shot dead. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

You either want a safe society or you want the Wild West….?

Edit. That doesn’t mean the police have impunity, but as said, you wanna play big boy cnt with a gun, you may well end up dead. Get over it.

Exactly this. I know several Police Officers who are wanting out. Can't see beyond the red tape.
 
I think it may have been an intelligence ‘failure’.
As a labour leaning forum should we not be supporting the officer/ union?
As has been stated on here speculation is rowlocks.
But that’s what seems to pass for current affairs these days.
One nation under a groove, UTB
 
Exactly this. I know several Police Officers who are wanting out. Can't see beyond the red tape.

I know a lot more than several.

The vast majority of officers I know would walk away now if they could find employment offering a similar level of pay.

I'm fortunate that I didn't need to do that and could afford to "start again" if you may.

This country is joke on respect of what it does to it's Police and it has a lot to do with left/ woke agenda.
 
This country is joke on respect of what it does to it's Police and it has a lot to do with left/ woke agenda.

No, it has to do with the largely right wing press trying to create culture wars between the right and the left, the underfunding of mental health issues, and the desire from the right wing government to use the police as some sort of private army (see Thatcher's SPG) and so they need to create an environment in which the general public wont object to this this dystopian vision playing out on our streets.

It also probably has a lot to do with the institutional racism or chronic failings of many police forces (e.g The Met or Cleveland police respectively) coupled with that fact that multiple serving police officers have been found guilty of rape, murder, sexual abuse etc and their crimes have been tolerated, even covered up by their colleagues.
 
Why don't we just make it law that an AFO can shoot to kill once a shot has been fired by the suspect? Only If the suspect is not suspected of terrorist (I mean having a bomb on them) offences. Wouldn't that avoid mistakes being made?

Do you get paid more for volunteering to be an AFO?
Pay/salary is dependent upon rank.
A neighbourhood SGT, dealing with local issues, schools, community concerns etc (all vital work) would be paid more than a ‘Firearms’ constable. An inspector, whatever the role would be paid more again.
So, no, there’s no incentive other than what you feel you can contribute, which is extremely important for most cops.
Overall, the pay is garbage but life isn’t all about money, some jobs and roles within the jobs are a vocation.
I have also never met a racist cop.
 
Bit more history: the so-called battle of the beanfield wasn’t police vs. hippies. It was troops off the plain (poss tank reg out of Bulford- one of our forces lads may know) vs. Falklands vets who were there to party not fight, hence the lack of resistance.


 
Why don't we just make it law that an AFO can shoot to kill once a shot has been fired by the suspect? Only If the suspect is not suspected of terrorist (I mean having a bomb on them) offences. Wouldn't that avoid mistakes being made?

Do you get paid more for volunteering to be an AFO?

Mainly because by then the officer might be dead or injured and well what then...

It's really easy to speak looking in but try wearing their shoes for a day and you'll see it entirely different.

They are trained to kill and are trained very well. The aim is fire as few bullets as possible if they are required to fire. You're talking about split second decisions that can dictate their future or lack thereof or indeed their life or that of someone else. It isn't an easy role and there is no financial incentive that I'm aware of.
 
there is no financial incentive that I'm aware of
The Casey Review found some interesting ways that firearms officers in the Met have been lining their pockets:

Colouring outside the lines’ in MO19 covers a catalogue of poor behaviours. Officers
and staff told us that the Command does not make sensible or considered financial
decisions. It allows officers to ‘game the system’ financially, with some earning up to
significant amounts through overtime shifts. Officers are allowed to work the
overtime system to top up their salaries, and financially rely on doing so.
We were told of well-known overtime ‘rackets,’ such as shifts for major events like
Notting Hill Carnival and New Year’s Eve being filled by officers on overtime, rather
than being scheduled as part of regular shift patterns, even though the dates are
known well in advance.
We were told that senior leaders had endorsed this, or looked the other way, while a
model developed where officers could work overtime when it was convenient to
them, and refuse it when it was not.
We were told that hotels, usually used to accommodate officers asked to work extra
shifts with no time to travel home, are being used to reward officers for hard work.
Officers will also overspend on hotels, selecting more expensive options rather than looking for value for money. They will make themselves available for certain shifts so
that they have the use of a hotel room.
We were also told that access to elite training courses and police resources were
either signed off without proper scrutiny, or used as rewards.
We heard of excessive spending on unnecessary, high-end equipment and kit, such
as tomahawk axes and unusable night vision goggles which turned out to be useless
in London’s street-lit environment.
We were told that specialist vehicle camouflage wraps, ineffective on the streets of
London, were purchased, and that a senior officer had to step in to block their use.
We were told of officers being allowed to make multiple, frequent expense claims
just below the limit that would require formal sign off, travelling overseas for training
courses, and ordering iPads and personalised jackets on expenses.
We were told that no other parts of the Met are given the freedom to pick and choose
their own IT, their own equipment, their own clothing, only MO19 can. There is a
resulting sense of entitlement in MO19 with regard to access to resources. There is
also a preoccupation with pay and remuneration which the Review did not witness in
the same way elsewhere in the Met. There is no incentive for officers who are
earning excessive salaries to change the existing model.
 
The Casey Review found some interesting ways that firearms officers in the Met have been lining their pockets:

Colouring outside the lines’ in MO19 covers a catalogue of poor behaviours. Officers
and staff told us that the Command does not make sensible or considered financial
decisions. It allows officers to ‘game the system’ financially, with some earning up to
significant amounts through overtime shifts. Officers are allowed to work the
overtime system to top up their salaries, and financially rely on doing so.
We were told of well-known overtime ‘rackets,’ such as shifts for major events like
Notting Hill Carnival and New Year’s Eve being filled by officers on overtime, rather
than being scheduled as part of regular shift patterns, even though the dates are
known well in advance.
We were told that senior leaders had endorsed this, or looked the other way, while a
model developed where officers could work overtime when it was convenient to
them, and refuse it when it was not.
We were told that hotels, usually used to accommodate officers asked to work extra
shifts with no time to travel home, are being used to reward officers for hard work.
Officers will also overspend on hotels, selecting more expensive options rather than looking for value for money. They will make themselves available for certain shifts so
that they have the use of a hotel room.
We were also told that access to elite training courses and police resources were
either signed off without proper scrutiny, or used as rewards.
We heard of excessive spending on unnecessary, high-end equipment and kit, such
as tomahawk axes and unusable night vision goggles which turned out to be useless
in London’s street-lit environment.
We were told that specialist vehicle camouflage wraps, ineffective on the streets of
London, were purchased, and that a senior officer had to step in to block their use.
We were told of officers being allowed to make multiple, frequent expense claims
just below the limit that would require formal sign off, travelling overseas for training
courses, and ordering iPads and personalised jackets on expenses.
We were told that no other parts of the Met are given the freedom to pick and choose
their own IT, their own equipment, their own clothing, only MO19 can. There is a
resulting sense of entitlement in MO19 with regard to access to resources. There is
also a preoccupation with pay and remuneration which the Review did not witness in
the same way elsewhere in the Met. There is no incentive for officers who are
earning excessive salaries to change the existing model.

Overtime is available throughout the force for almost any operational role so it isn't really an incentive over and above your average PC.

And generally there isn't enough officers on shift to cover events outside of normal duty.


I worked on shifts in Cleveland were we paraded 5 officers on for a 12 hour night shift covering the whole of Stockton and 3 of them were probationers and I can't see why that would be different in other forces really.
 
Last edited:
As a labour leaning forum should we not be supporting the officer/ union?
That's a new one, a call to present a united front on behalf of the forum.

Or maybe allow people to form and express their own opinions, regardless of where they happen to lean?

We might be labour leaning but it's not compulsory. (Or is it?)
 
Back
Top