Surely watching Top Gear is a sign of having given up on life?
Anyone on here have an Electric car?
- Thread starter SmallTown
- Start date
How often is "regularly"? Once a month? How often would your kids be awake at a time you need to charge? Half the time?
Why would stopping to charge wake them up, yet, just driving, taking a diversion or hitting traffic wouldn't? If they wake up for all of those then you should be used to it
In that scenario, it's possibly waking the kids up once every month (say on the return journey of one return trip), it's hardly the end of the world and it's probably safer taking a break rather than driving for 5 hours plus.
Say even if you had the standard range Tesla with a 250 mile range and you stopped after 200 to charge up. When you arrive at your families you're on 150 miles range still, having this plugged in overnight for two nights of a weekend stay will mean you're pretty much leaving with a full charge. You can still charge from a 3 pin plug, and as it's just "topping up" this would be enough. Or just charge it if you pop out so a supermarket or something whilst you're away.
The long range is 350 miles, which would suit better or course, but there's not many that would need this, although I bet most would think they would need it.
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SmallTown
Well-known member
No
Aye, and 3 series and most BMW's depreciate like an absolute stone, if you're paying top whack, especially the performance models. I've had about 4 x 3 series a 5 and now a 4.
The 430 I have now was 43k new, I got it a year old and it's probably worth 20k now.
I got a 520d for 30k (heavily reduced) and that was only worth like 18k after 2 years.
Last 3 series was about 35k, that was worth about 20 also, after 2 years.
I don't see a Tesla dropping 23k, 12k or 15k in two years, or even 3 years.
The cheapest Model 3 on Autotrader is a year old and 37k, so it's only lost like 3k which is unreal.
The way I see it, the Tesla's will depreciate less, they will be cheaper to "fill up", and as a company car they're a massive saving in BIK/ Tax, my literal one issue with them is how they look, but I'm coming round.
boromike85
Well-known member
Teslas are the top of the market in terms of range. Most of the alternatives aren't as good with range or quick charging infrastructure. There are other impracticalities with travelling with 2 children in a Tesla, unless I went for the Model X which is not an option. Of the cars that are an option then real world range is about 200 miles (max). A half an hour stop is just an unwanted necessity in a lot of cases. It isn't just the 300 mile journey, as I said above a 100m journey (it's 135 to my parents) who don't have a charger or an external socket to top up etc means I either have to stop (for an hour, not half an hour because the majority of services only have the half speed fast chargers in them) or I'd have to do an extra journey to a supermarket or something, hope one of the 2 chargers are free and then stay for an hour.
There are just too many inconveniences that can be solved by buying an ICE, which are still cheaper to buy in the first place. If our main car was already a big, practical car for doing the long journeys in and I only needed one for my commute and local trips then 100% I would be getting an EV. Once they are getting 3-400m range and 10minute charging then I'll be on board (and it really won't be long away which will make the current models depreciate to next to nothing very quickly). Of course, the discounts and incentives will have gone by then so will probably be impractical from a financial standpoint instead.
SmallTown
Well-known member
You do seem to be making excuses for very specific scenarios. It is interesting that you seem to need to go into a very detailed scenario to say all EVs don't fit your needs. It's fair enough, you're not a fan. It took me a long time to come round but the case against the EV grows less and less daily. You should look at the kia e-niro though. It has 300 mile plus range, it has small batteries so will be quick to charge and is SUV shaped so it'll be good enough for the family. It'll fit your very precise scenario.
Mike,
So you or a BMW/ Audi owner could get a Tesla, not one with crap range? The point I'm making is about Tesla's, not the others which are miles behind, literally. Not sure why Model 3 Tesla is not an option if you have kids? But if you need a bigger car then the same would apply for any other type of car, so your cost is going up on those too, and performance/ economy coming down rapidly.
Telsa tells you which locations have a free supercharger/ normal charger, and I don't even think I've ever seen an instance of them all being taken up.
You always have the option of an extension lead of a 13 Amp plug.
The 135 miles to your parents is no bother, you could do that there and back on one charge unless you bought one with a tiny range (which nobody would), or certainly one charge and a 13 amp top up, assuming you're not driving 270 miles for a cuppa.
So you or a BMW/ Audi owner could get a Tesla, not one with crap range? The point I'm making is about Tesla's, not the others which are miles behind, literally. Not sure why Model 3 Tesla is not an option if you have kids? But if you need a bigger car then the same would apply for any other type of car, so your cost is going up on those too, and performance/ economy coming down rapidly.
Telsa tells you which locations have a free supercharger/ normal charger, and I don't even think I've ever seen an instance of them all being taken up.
You always have the option of an extension lead of a 13 Amp plug.
The 135 miles to your parents is no bother, you could do that there and back on one charge unless you bought one with a tiny range (which nobody would), or certainly one charge and a 13 amp top up, assuming you're not driving 270 miles for a cuppa.
Tommy_Dickfingers
Well-known member
I'm just organising a power point as I've got a Q5 hybrid due at the end of this month.
Looked at the tax savings based on the emmisions and it was a no-brainer versus something like a Kodaq diesel.
Mind I will have to keep it charged to make it worthwhile as it has a 2ltr quattro engine thingy.
I'm no expert by the way
Looked at the tax savings based on the emmisions and it was a no-brainer versus something like a Kodaq diesel.
Mind I will have to keep it charged to make it worthwhile as it has a 2ltr quattro engine thingy.
I'm no expert by the way
SmallTown
Well-known member
Your audio/BMW (or in my case Merc) driver could easily afford a Tesla. In fact with the money saved on fuel, servicing and depreciation alone they coped barely afford not too. I sort of a agree, however, the infrastructure isn't quite there. On my current commute if I needed an "emergency" supercharger top up due to extreme bad traffic or bad weather, two of the stations that would be handy are "arriving in 2020" according to Tesla. so likely not until next year! Also I HAVE seen the other supercharger I could use, at Fleet services, full once. This will get worse as the Model 3 is the biggest selling car this year. So, yes, the infrastructure hasn't caught up YET. but it's certainly getting there (Polar are putting a load more super fast chargers in) and it's certainly enough to be practical right now.
The way I see it, is if you do a lot of miles you're going to buy one with a longer range or not at all. Nobody doing 300 miles per day is going to buy an EV with 150 miles range, the same way nobody is going to cycle to work when they live 100 miles away.
If someone is driving 300 miles, then that's a 600 miles round trip, they're probably not doing that in a day, not every day anyway. Somebody doing those kind of miles is likely going to be doing it in a 30k+ car anyway, which is what £300 per month? So for them they would possibly look at a long range 45k,450/mth. Either way on that journey they're stopping on the way down, at the destination and on the way back, that's three stops.
They would only need one charge along the way on that journey and would save about £50 each time in fuel by having a Tesla. After three journeys a month, the Tesla has paid back the extra it has cost, and you're also driving a 45k Tesla, not a 30k car.
If you do that three times a week then then you've saved about £450 that month, over owning and fuelling a worse/ cheaper car, that's petrol/ diesel.
If someone is driving 200 miles, then that's a 400 miles round trip, they're probably not doing that in a day, not every day anyway. Somebody doing those kind of miles is likely going to be doing it in a 20k+ car anyway, which is what £200 per month. So for them they would possibly look at a standard range (40k, £400 a month). Either way on that journey they're possibly stopping on the way down, at the destination and on the way back, that's three stops, maybe two, maybe one. They would only need one charge along the way on that journey and would save about £30 each time in fuel by having a Tesla. After 7 journeys a month, the Tesla has paid back the extra it has cost, and you're also driving a Tesla, not a 20k car.
If you do that three times a week then then you've saved about £150 that month, over owning and fuelling a worse/ cheaper car, that's petrol/ diesel.
If someone is driving 500 miles a week, in say 10 commutes of 50 miles, then they could use a standard range, 40k, £400/month, plus £40 to charge it for the month?
A 20k car would be 200 per month and 200 fuel, so £400. Yeah the Tesla would be £40 more per month, but you're driving a Tesla, not a 20k car, and you never have to visit a fuel station again.
Fair enough this person might not get a Tesla, but they could get a 30k E-Golf, which then means they're £30 a month better off.
Tesla's make sense if you're going to use them and use the range, they're very different cars to those aimed at short commutes.
Telsa's make sense to any company car owner, no matter what they're doing, the Tax, BIK and Running costs will be tiny by comparison.
If someone is driving 300 miles, then that's a 600 miles round trip, they're probably not doing that in a day, not every day anyway. Somebody doing those kind of miles is likely going to be doing it in a 30k+ car anyway, which is what £300 per month? So for them they would possibly look at a long range 45k,450/mth. Either way on that journey they're stopping on the way down, at the destination and on the way back, that's three stops.
They would only need one charge along the way on that journey and would save about £50 each time in fuel by having a Tesla. After three journeys a month, the Tesla has paid back the extra it has cost, and you're also driving a 45k Tesla, not a 30k car.
If you do that three times a week then then you've saved about £450 that month, over owning and fuelling a worse/ cheaper car, that's petrol/ diesel.
If someone is driving 200 miles, then that's a 400 miles round trip, they're probably not doing that in a day, not every day anyway. Somebody doing those kind of miles is likely going to be doing it in a 20k+ car anyway, which is what £200 per month. So for them they would possibly look at a standard range (40k, £400 a month). Either way on that journey they're possibly stopping on the way down, at the destination and on the way back, that's three stops, maybe two, maybe one. They would only need one charge along the way on that journey and would save about £30 each time in fuel by having a Tesla. After 7 journeys a month, the Tesla has paid back the extra it has cost, and you're also driving a Tesla, not a 20k car.
If you do that three times a week then then you've saved about £150 that month, over owning and fuelling a worse/ cheaper car, that's petrol/ diesel.
If someone is driving 500 miles a week, in say 10 commutes of 50 miles, then they could use a standard range, 40k, £400/month, plus £40 to charge it for the month?
A 20k car would be 200 per month and 200 fuel, so £400. Yeah the Tesla would be £40 more per month, but you're driving a Tesla, not a 20k car, and you never have to visit a fuel station again.
Fair enough this person might not get a Tesla, but they could get a 30k E-Golf, which then means they're £30 a month better off.
Tesla's make sense if you're going to use them and use the range, they're very different cars to those aimed at short commutes.
Telsa's make sense to any company car owner, no matter what they're doing, the Tax, BIK and Running costs will be tiny by comparison.
SmallTown
Well-known member
This is good point about range and people doing long journeys.
In the same way that if you have to do long journeys you'd get a big Audi or Merc saloon as opposed to a Clio or Micra. Translate that to EV and you'd get a Tesla or Polestar if you need to do long journeys and not a Zoe or a leaf. So when talking about range, all the cars you look at will be around the 300 mile mark, which is more than enough for any single leg of a journey without needing to stop for a rest. So saying "EVs" don't have the range because an egolf or mini e only does 100 miles is a false equivalence. The simple fact is, if all you use your car is for commuting or local journeys, you'll NEVER have to fill up an EV outside of your home because you'll just stick it on charge every night. Conversely if you make long journeys, almost all the "premium" EVs have all the range you need to do a single leg safely.
In the same way that if you have to do long journeys you'd get a big Audi or Merc saloon as opposed to a Clio or Micra. Translate that to EV and you'd get a Tesla or Polestar if you need to do long journeys and not a Zoe or a leaf. So when talking about range, all the cars you look at will be around the 300 mile mark, which is more than enough for any single leg of a journey without needing to stop for a rest. So saying "EVs" don't have the range because an egolf or mini e only does 100 miles is a false equivalence. The simple fact is, if all you use your car is for commuting or local journeys, you'll NEVER have to fill up an EV outside of your home because you'll just stick it on charge every night. Conversely if you make long journeys, almost all the "premium" EVs have all the range you need to do a single leg safely.
boromike85
Well-known member
We were having a general discussion about electric cars, not just the Tesla. The reason a Model 3 isn't practical is I have 2 kids under 2. Going away for the weekend usually means prams, travel cots plus luggage. Our current car has a bigger boot than a Model 3 and isn't big enough because we have no overflow space into the back seats with 2 car seats. If the kids were 4/5 instead then we'd have less stuff so more space. The big car would be less of an issue. Due to those constraints my options are for the EVs that aren't Tesla and they, or the infrastructure, aren't good enough yet. Next couple of years then yes, but today they just aren't. drive around these days and most new cars are SUVs of some kind because it is space that people want. The electric SUVs, especially full size SUVs and not the raised height polo/golf size cars, are almost non-existent because the battery capacity isn't available.
Also, you assume that anyone doing long journeys, must be driving a £30k+ car as the alternative to an electric/Tesla but that isn't true in most cases, or if it is it is in a car that cost that years ago and was bought second hand. All of the cheaper brands also make cars that can comfortably do long journeys regularly. People justify having a saloon for long journeys for comfort but most of those miles are done by a single person and a smaller car would do it just as comfortably.
I've driven a hybrid for 2 years so I understand the potential for electric and I've also failed to make my 25 mile commute on the 31 mile quoted battery on every single occasion, I have failed to get half way most of the time. Quoted figures and real world driving conditions are frequently different but a 5 minute petrol stop is much more convenient than a 30+ minute stop, and inevitably some food at the service which eats into the savings anyway. IMO the hybrid is the best of both worlds but a better implementation of a hybrid is needed for anyone with a commute over 10 miles.
Also, you assume that anyone doing long journeys, must be driving a £30k+ car as the alternative to an electric/Tesla but that isn't true in most cases, or if it is it is in a car that cost that years ago and was bought second hand. All of the cheaper brands also make cars that can comfortably do long journeys regularly. People justify having a saloon for long journeys for comfort but most of those miles are done by a single person and a smaller car would do it just as comfortably.
I've driven a hybrid for 2 years so I understand the potential for electric and I've also failed to make my 25 mile commute on the 31 mile quoted battery on every single occasion, I have failed to get half way most of the time. Quoted figures and real world driving conditions are frequently different but a 5 minute petrol stop is much more convenient than a 30+ minute stop, and inevitably some food at the service which eats into the savings anyway. IMO the hybrid is the best of both worlds but a better implementation of a hybrid is needed for anyone with a commute over 10 miles.
Yeah, that's why I was originally looking at the long range, but now I'm thinking what's the point, I'll never need it or it will never be worth it.
Even when I drive to our lasses parents in Taunton which is 300 miles, that's 150-200 miles, stop, grab something to eat and charge. It's not stopping more than I normally would and I only do that trip maybe 3 times a year so it's not even worth putting in my thought process.
Even if I drive to Manchester and back for a meeting, it's still pretty much one charge, but even then most of the time doing that in a petrol/ diesel I end up stopping anyway for food, a pi$$ or because the car wan't full when I left.
A load of arguments I see for petrol cars are "I can do 500 miles without stopping", well you can't really, 500 on the dash is 450 in reality (on any car I've owned), and that's when it's full. The only time it's full is the second you leave the fuel station. With an EV it's pretty much going to be "full" every time you leave your drive.
I've never driven more than 300 miles in one hit, it's just not enjoyable to do that.
Even when I drive to our lasses parents in Taunton which is 300 miles, that's 150-200 miles, stop, grab something to eat and charge. It's not stopping more than I normally would and I only do that trip maybe 3 times a year so it's not even worth putting in my thought process.
Even if I drive to Manchester and back for a meeting, it's still pretty much one charge, but even then most of the time doing that in a petrol/ diesel I end up stopping anyway for food, a pi$$ or because the car wan't full when I left.
A load of arguments I see for petrol cars are "I can do 500 miles without stopping", well you can't really, 500 on the dash is 450 in reality (on any car I've owned), and that's when it's full. The only time it's full is the second you leave the fuel station. With an EV it's pretty much going to be "full" every time you leave your drive.
I've never driven more than 300 miles in one hit, it's just not enjoyable to do that.
SmallTown
Well-known member
What is your current car? I'm surprised, because the model 3 has reasonable storage for it's size. Maybe the model y will help?
Ah ok Mike, I've not even looked at any others apart from the E-Tron, but they're too expensive for what you get.
The Model 3's boot looked similar to a 3 series to me, maybe slightly smaller, but BMW boots make it practically impossible to fill them. There's no way you would get all that lot in a 3 series boot either.
Most people that do long journeys most days do it in newer more comfortable cars/ saloons, and swap cars more often I would say. I don't know anyone doing over 25k miles in a banger to be honest, if they are, then I feel sorry for them.
The Model 3's boot looked similar to a 3 series to me, maybe slightly smaller, but BMW boots make it practically impossible to fill them. There's no way you would get all that lot in a 3 series boot either.
Most people that do long journeys most days do it in newer more comfortable cars/ saloons, and swap cars more often I would say. I don't know anyone doing over 25k miles in a banger to be honest, if they are, then I feel sorry for them.
SmallTown
Well-known member
if you remove the lid that separates the bottom part of the boot to the top, the model 3 and the BMW 3 series have the same size boot. Add to that the froot/frunk on the Model 3 and it adds up to more storage space.
boromike85
Well-known member
We have a Chevrolet Cruze. It's rubbish but has a decent boot. It's about the size of a Focus and has been our long distance car because our other was a Golf GTE which had a tiny boot. The lease on the GTE has ended and I haven't replaced it yet due to lockdown. The idea is to get a family car now and then the Cruze will get replaced next year with a smaller car for one of our commutes. If the Cruze was a bit bigger then I'd have got an e-Golf probably, which I could have had for £200pm all in. Instead I'm either looking at leasing an EV the top end to have good enough range and size, and it still not being perfect or buying a 2-3 year old SUV/estate/people carrier that will last us a good few years.
The E-Tron is tempting but through work I can only get the 50 (£350pm all in which is about the same I was paying for the Golf) but it is only 180mile range (quoted so probably less). I don't need an E-Tron to do short journeys so it would be excessive as a commuter. I've just moved so I don't even do motorway on my commute and I'll probably wfh for half the time in the future anyway.
SmallTown
Well-known member
I like the look of the e-trin but the range seems really poor to me, compared to what other companies have been able to create.
Good new though: the Tesla Model 3 has more storage space than the Chevy Cruze!
boromike85
Well-known member
Just. Not enough more to fit a double buggy in and all the other crap that comes along when we travel.
The point is moot anyway. The Tesla is no longer an option through work.