And so it begins...Lack of policing funds.

Mr_Fridge said:
For those people coming late to this thread, it was originally posted without the “lack of police funds” in the heading. That was added after being called out. It was left with a link to the racist Twitter account and for people to work out what was meant by it.
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Wrong. It was edited for clarification after been questioned by admin.
The warning signs from lack of police funding have been their for years hence the begins bit.
Thankyou. 👍🏻

@BoroMart your right mate. It kicked off one night up here the other week when the fair was in town, it happened out of the way of the general public.
 
I am going to have to disagree with posters here. I think the message is more important, in this case, than where it originated from. The video could be left to stand on it's own. I watched it in-situ so was spared any comments on twitter.

We shouldn't ignore a message because we disagree with the messengers motives. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons. In addition, Randy was linked to the messages origins, unfairly in my opinion. Never known him to post racist stuff so have no reason to think that was his motive.

Finally, stripping the police of funding is much more dangerous than some racists. It doesn't have the comfort of just being able to call it out to make us feel a bit better.
 
Randy said:
It's not the before or after I was shining a light on. It was the abhorrent violence towards other people and officers of the law in front of innocent members of the public, young and old. As Laughing said, I'm not particularly bothered about who posted the video, it's been recorded on a camera phone with no editing. Yes the poster in twitter probably posted it to highlight his or her's own little crusade I agree, doesn't take away from the content of it ultimately though.
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Like I said Randy - the poster provides the context. He can edit it to suit his narrative. We didn't see the before and after and this is the problem, especially when the motives of the poster is in question.

This is why critical thinking and not just reposting stuff is important:

- Why is the poster filming this?
- Did the poster film this?
- What is the poster gaining from publishing this?
- What message is the poster trying to send?
- Does the poster have an ulterior motive with this content?
- What, do I think, have the poster omitted from the clip?
- What will people think if I post this?
- What message am I sending sharing this and will that message be misinterpreted?
- Is this video appropriate for the audience I am sharing it with

These are just a few questions that we need to be asking ourselves with clips like that. By the way, the violence is inexcusable, but when I watched the clip I wasn't drawn to the public young and old, all I saw was the men scuffling and the police being chased off. It was hard to tell who was the public and who were protesters.
 
Laughing said:
I am going to have to disagree with posters here. I think the message is more important, in this case, than where it originated from. The video could be left to stand on it's own. I watched it in-situ so was spared any comments on twitter.

We shouldn't ignore a message because we disagree with the messengers motives. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons. In addition, Randy was linked to the messages origins, unfairly in my opinion. Never known him to post racist stuff so have no reason to think that was his motive.

Finally, stripping the police of funding is much more dangerous than some racists. It doesn't have the comfort of just being able to call it out to make us feel a bit better.
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What is 'The Message' that the clip was portraying?
 
Laughing said:
I am going to have to disagree with posters here. I think the message is more important, in this case, than where it originated from. The video could be left to stand on it's own. I watched it in-situ so was spared any comments on twitter.

We shouldn't ignore a message because we disagree with the messengers motives. People can do the right thing for the wrong reasons. In addition, Randy was linked to the messages origins, unfairly in my opinion. Never known him to post racist stuff so have no reason to think that was his motive.

Finally, stripping the police of funding is much more dangerous than some racists. It doesn't have the comfort of just being able to call it out to make us feel a bit better.
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I guess you weren’t around in August 2020 when I recall some abhorrent comments about migrants. In fairness they were deleted immediately once challenged. I’m not saying this poster is anything but a good hearted passionate poster but needs to take care what is posted sometimes.
 
Abel Tasman said:
I guess you weren’t around in August 2020 when I recall some abhorrent comments about migrants. In fairness they were deleted immediately once challenged. I’m not saying this poster is anything but a good hearted passionate poster but needs to take care what is posted sometimes.
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No I didn't see that, and in fairness to him, I would have to see the whole thing and in what the context was.
 
BoroMart said:
I don't think people call out racism to make themselves 'feel a bit better'
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I think that is exactly what most people do mart. Not all, but plenty of them.

I see it time and time again when someone makes a racist comment and it goes unchallenged in the real world. I live in a village, very middle class with one black guy and there are a small minority, maybe 3 or 4 people that find it OK to make casual racist remarks, without challenge. I always challenge it where I see it. Posting criticism on a message board doesn't really cut it for me. Talking after the incident in a pub, after the culprit has gone, doesn't cut it for me.
 
Laughing said:
I think that is exactly what most people do mart. Not all, but plenty of them.
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I think it's called empathy, people see injustice and are angered at entitled and abusive people getting away with it....it's absolutely nothing to do with trying to make themselves feel better. This view has been pushed through twitter etc for a few years now, and is just another take on "doo gooders". Do you know what's worse than people that do good and want a better world for all, people that do bad and want a better world for themselves.

Laughing said:
Posting criticism on a message board doesn't really cut it for me.
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But letting it go unchallenged on social media feeds the beast. So many people get their 'news' from social media. Yes do something in real life too, but you can't ignore and let the weaponisation of social media continue
 
Laughing said:
Insufficient police resources. They couldn't contain a handful of protesters.
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I didn't get that from the clip. What I took from it was a load of Iranian's causing trouble on the streets. On first watch I actually thought it was something to do with the troubles in Leicester.

That is why I looked further into it and then discovered some context about why it was happening. There was no context or information as to if the police were aware of the protests and couldn't police it, or if those officers just turned up not knowing what was going on and did a great job. 10 minutes later there could have been 30 officers there for all we know but we don't see the before and after.

And that is the problem. There was no contact provided on the original clip apart from 'Its happening' - what does that even mean?
 
r00fie1 said:
There was no shortage of undercover, armed and uniformed officers for the recent "mourning".
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Wouldn't be surprised if many of those officers didn't get paid an extra day, but got a day in leiu meaning that over the next few weeks, shifts will be short of man power
 
BoroMart said:
I think it's called empathy, people see injustice and are angered at entitled and abusive people getting away with it....it's absolutely nothing to do with trying to make themselves feel better. This view has been pushed through twitter etc for a few years now, and is just another take on "doo gooders". Do you know what's worse than people that do good and want a better world for all, people that do bad and want a better world for themselves.


But letting it go unchallenged on social media feeds the beast. So many people get their 'news' from social media. Yes do something in real life too, but you can't ignore and let the weaponisation of social media continue
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I wouldn't argue with the points you raise. My observation is that for most people posting outrage is as far as it goes.
 
Laughing said:
I wouldn't argue with the points you raise. My observation is that for most people posting outrage is as far as it goes.
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well that beats sitting in silene, as silence is seen as tacit support. Not everyone is going to actively show their outrage in the real world, because of fear of physical retribution. That doesn't make their online outrage less heartfelt or important.
 
BoroMart said:
Wouldn't be surprised if many of those officers didn't get paid an extra day, but got a day in leiu meaning that over the next few weeks, shifts will be short of man power
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The Met ones didn't; they got paid time and a half. I don't know about the ones that were drafted from elsewhere.
 
BoroMart said:
well that beats sitting in silene, as silence is seen as tacit support. Not everyone is going to actively show their outrage in the real world, because of fear of physical retribution. That doesn't make their online outrage less heartfelt or important.
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I think it does in the wider context of what is said online, not just moral arguments. It's easy to attack someone online where their motives are not always clear. It seems cowardly to me.

Would Randy have been rounded on and banned discussing this topic in the real world?

There is a way to approach the subject. "Randy are you aware of where this content comes from?" would be one way.

Equally in the real world you don't have to be overly confrontational. "is that anyway to speak to some body?" does just fine.

Online outrage doesn't do an awful lot. Racists will ignore it and I'd go as far to say they barely notice it if their real world experiences tell a different story.
 
Laughing said:
Online outrage doesn't do an awful lot. Racists will ignore it and I'd go as far to say they barely notice it if their real world experiences tell a different story.
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Maybe, but challenging it can stop other people falling down the rabbit hole when they read overt or covert racism and don't use critical thinking to recognise what it is.

In this case, Randy seems to have misunderstood the intent of the original 'author', he's not looking at it in that way, but by sharing others will, so it's right to call the original post out for what it is, racist fear mongering
 
BoroMart said:
Maybe, but challenging it can stop other people falling down the rabbit hole when they read overt or covert racism and don't use critical thinking to recognise what it is.

In this case, Randy seems to have misunderstood the intent of the original 'author', he's not looking at it in that way, but by sharing others will, so it's right to call the original post out for what it is, racist fear mongering
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My issue is how it was done. Again I don't disagree with your sentiments.
 
Laughing said:
I think it does in the wider context of what is said online, not just moral arguments. It's easy to attack someone online where their motives are not always clear. It seems cowardly to me.

Would Randy have been rounded on and banned discussing this topic in the real world?

There is a way to approach the subject. "Randy are you aware of where this content comes from?" would be one way.

Equally in the real world you don't have to be overly confrontational. "is that anyway to speak to some body?" does just fine.

Online outrage doesn't do an awful lot. Racists will ignore it and I'd go as far to say they barely notice it if their real world experiences tell a different story.
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I don't think anyone here 'rounded on' Randy. The approaches I've seen on this thread were quite reasonable.
 
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