Alex Gilbert

ForssAwakens said:
I tend to trust the recruitment department after last summer

Fans quick to criticise need to give their head a wobble.
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The recruitment team have really done nothing to prove they can be trusted over the long term. The close of last summer's transfer window had everyone in meltdown because we didn't sign any of the strikers we were after and we sold our best midfielder and didn't replace him. We got extremely lucky that Hackney was capable of stepping up and Akpom went from loser that has never shown any sign of being good to best player in the league but that had nothing to do with the recruitment team. We signed 3 strikers last season that played a total of about 10 matches as a striker (1 development striker that ended up out wide, Muniz who was dropped after a month and Hoppe that was sent to Scotland). We did very well with loans in January but I'm fairly sure Danks is as much to thank for that than anything else and it was only possible because Carrick had turned the squad around. Half of our best players last season were loans which we haven't replaced yet. Good recruitment would be signing players that we own. Our squad today is very, very weak. It needs a lot of work to be ready for the start of the season so we really need them to step up and deliver.

I'm not going to criticise them before the season starts but they have a lot to prove still. I like the idea of signing young players with potential but as supplements to the squad, not the foundation. Not sure we can be relying on a player that hasn't played football against adults. We can't constantly rely on loans either otherwise we end up in this position of needing a full rebuild every single summer which is unsustainable. We also get no benefit from the increase in value of the players we have on loan. How much more could the parent clubs get for Archer, Ramsey, Giles, Steffen etc than they would have got last season and we paid for the privilege.
 
starplayer said:
So, would he be an Archer replacement or Coburn mk2?
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GK Walton/Brynn/Roberts

RB Smith/Dijksteel/Agyemang
CD Fry/McNair
CD Leninian/Clarke
LB Bola/Coulson/Miroshi

MF Howson/Barlaser
MF Hackney/Bird/Smith

RW Forss/Jones
AM Akpom/John
LW McGree/Silvera/Gilbert

ST Archer/Crooks/Coburn/Hoppe/Nkrumah

Five players in to replace five players out..

GK Steffen
LB Giles
MF Mowett
LW Ramsey
ST Archer
 
Nano said:
The recruitment team have really done nothing to prove they can be trusted over the long term. The close of last summer's transfer window had everyone in meltdown because we didn't sign any of the strikers we were after and we sold our best midfielder and didn't replace him. We got extremely lucky that Hackney was capable of stepping up and Akpom went from loser that has never shown any sign of being good to best player in the league but that had nothing to do with the recruitment team. We signed 3 strikers last season that played a total of about 10 matches as a striker (1 development striker that ended up out wide, Muniz who was dropped after a month and Hoppe that was sent to Scotland). We did very well with loans in January but I'm fairly sure Danks is as much to thank for that than anything else and it was only possible because Carrick had turned the squad around. Half of our best players last season were loans which we haven't replaced yet. Good recruitment would be signing players that we own. Our squad today is very, very weak. It needs a lot of work to be ready for the start of the season so we really need them to step up and deliver.

I'm not going to criticise them before the season starts but they have a lot to prove still. I like the idea of signing young players with potential but as supplements to the squad, not the foundation. Not sure we can be relying on a player that hasn't played football against adults. We can't constantly rely on loans either otherwise we end up in this position of needing a full rebuild every single summer which is unsustainable. We also get no benefit from the increase in value of the players we have on loan. How much more could the parent clubs get for Archer, Ramsey, Giles, Steffen etc than they would have got last season and we paid for the privilege.
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Excellent post.
The 2 loans from Villa were fabulous - but Danks clearly massively involved in those.
Massive summer for Scott.
 
Personally I feel recruitment did well. The loans all worked out bar one. Forss is a decent first team player for a reasonable outlay. Mcgree a very good one for again a reasonable outlay. Lenihan and Smith I think are both solid free transfers.

Regarding having a large number of loans? This is how football is. The whole division is skew whiff with parachute money. The big premier League clubs gobble up all the players. Loans is how you even the field. It's been this way for years. It's just how it is. Especially if you want to play fancy **** football. We all saw what happens when we tried doing that with the standard of player we can afford to buy under woodgate. And dear god none of us want to see that again.

I think the trouble is our plan is the same as every other teams plan. Play fancy **** football, buy players cheap. It's a very very crowded market. Managers are now appointed first and foremost for playing fancy **** football rather than results. As a result clubs are all looking at the same players in the same markets.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Personally I feel recruitment did well. The loans all worked out bar one. Forss is a decent first team player for a reasonable outlay. Mcgree a very good one for again a reasonable outlay. Lenihan and Smith I think are both solid free transfers.

Regarding having a large number of loans? This is how football is. The whole division is skew whiff with parachute money. The big premier League clubs gobble up all the players. Loans is how you even the field. It's been this way for years. It's just how it is. Especially if you want to play fancy **** football. We all saw what happens when we tried doing that with the standard of player we can afford to buy under woodgate. And dear god none of us want to see that again.

I think the trouble is our plan is the same as every other teams plan. Play fancy **** football, buy players cheap. It's a very very crowded market. Managers are now appointed first and foremost for playing fancy **** football rather than results. As a result clubs are all looking at the same players in the same markets.
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Brentford showed us all how to do recruitment in the championship but we're going another route. Buy good players with potential, play a system that makes them look good, sell them asap for a big profit, reinvest and do it again. Loan players get in the way of your own player's development. 1 or 2 to fill gaps is fine. Having 5 in your 1st team is short term thinking and far more expensive in the long run.

We should have already sold Fry when he was young and wanted by other teams, Jones should've gone last season when his stock was high. Akpom should go this season etc. Offering players a platform to get to the PL quickly will help attract better players. You benefit from the increase in value instead of the parent clubs . Probably costs less to buy them than PL loans. Use that money to buy more players until you have enough high performing players to get you promotion.
 
Nano said:
Brentford showed us all how to do recruitment in the championship but we're going another route. Buy good players with potential, play a system that makes them look good, sell them asap for a big profit, reinvest and do it again. Loan players get in the way of your own player's development. 1 or 2 to fill gaps is fine. Having 5 in your 1st team is short term thinking and far more expensive in the long run.

We should have already sold Fry when he was young and wanted by other teams, Jones should've gone last season when his stock was high. Akpom should go this season etc. Offering players a platform to get to the PL quickly will help attract better players. You benefit from the increase in value instead of the parent clubs . Probably costs less to buy them than PL loans. Use that money to buy more players until you have enough high performing players to get you promotion.
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Solid logic, but ignores the emotional side somewhat.

Harsh economics might say we have to cash in on, say, Chuba, but watching him bang then in last year with a huge smile his face was joyous. There has to be a bit of space for that or what's the point getting invested as a fan?
 
Sorry to inform you all but the days where you can pick up world class players from the likes of Chester city are long gone I’m afraid. Anyone half decent is hoovered up by the Chelsea and Man City academies before they’re 18 these days.
 
coluka said:
Absolutely we do, I have no truck with that, signing potential stars of the future is one thing, signing first team ready players is another. One poster talked of the lad, reasonably pointing out game time would be limited at Forest and Wolves, but given Izzy has stated Carrick said auto promotion is the aim this season, is an Alex Gilbert the man you can hang your hat on to replace an Aaron Ramsey or Ryan Giles et al?

Of course he may be a potential talent, the fact that other teams in the PL are interested and that Brentford have offered a new contract tells you the lad has promise, but is promise enough to achieve the stated aim, I’d be surprised if he was seen as a first team shoe in. He may be a world beater, I don’t know, he may be the next Ryan Giggs, he could always turn out to be the next Harry Chapman too, If we as a club want to try to get auto promotion we need a degree of tried and tested talent for the first 11 surely?
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There’s space for one starter and a couple of first reserves that are not tried and tested. Any more than that and we would just lack the experience, the know how to get up. From his perspective being on the bench here would be a step up from B team at a prem side. I guess the question is does he back his ability to go from bench to starter at a top champo club or does he go league one and be a starter straight away?
 
Chutney said:
Solid logic, but ignores the emotional side somewhat.

Harsh economics might say we have to cash in on, say, Chuba, but watching him bang then in last year with a huge smile his face was joyous. There has to be a bit of space for that or what's the point getting invested as a fan?
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Absolutely. As a fan I don't want us to sell our best players but as a business model it makes more sense to actually have a long term strategy. The club make decisions that fans disagree with all the time (high ticket prices, high merchandise costs, dreadful quality merchandise, expensive food/drink and nobody serving etc) but I think fans would buy into a genuine strategy if selling our best players meant reinvesting and buying more good players.

I just can't believe 6 loan players making up half your 1st team is the best strategic decision we can make. Some years like last season it works and makes sense but other years you get Connolly, Lea Siliki, Sporar, Hernandez and Balogun and it looks like an atrocious idea.
 
Nano said:
Brentford showed us all how to do recruitment in the championship but we're going another route. Buy good players with potential, play a system that makes them look good, sell them asap for a big profit, reinvest and do it again. Loan players get in the way of your own player's development. 1 or 2 to fill gaps is fine. Having 5 in your 1st team is short term thinking and far more expensive in the long run.
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We wanted to take Zach and Ryan on permanently. Cameron and Aaron only arrived in January and we wanted permanent moves.
Nano said:
We should have already sold Fry when he was young and wanted by other teams,
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He didn’t want to leave
Nano said:
Jones should've gone last season when his stock was high.
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He was struggling and we had no one to replace. Best of here tbh.
Nano said:
Akpom should go this season etc.
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No
Nano said:
Offering players a platform to get to the PL quickly will help attract better players. You benefit from the increase in value instead of the parent clubs . Probably costs less to buy them than PL loans. Use that money to buy more players until you have enough high performing players to get you promotion.
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The aim is promotion, we were close last season. THAT is the aim. NOT developing players for premier league teams.
 
Nano said:
Absolutely. As a fan I don't want us to sell our best players but as a business model it makes more sense to actually have a long term strategy. The club make decisions that fans disagree with all the time (high ticket prices, high merchandise costs, dreadful quality merchandise, expensive food/drink and nobody serving etc) but I think fans would buy into a genuine strategy if selling our best players meant reinvesting and buying more good players.

I just can't believe 6 loan players making up half your 1st team is the best strategic decision we can make. Some years like last season it works and makes sense but other years you get Connolly, Lea Siliki, Sporar, Hernandez and Balogun and it looks like an atrocious idea.
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Improve for less.. our model is working fine. The sorts of players we are linked with or have brought in show we are on the right path..
 
newyddion said:
Improve for less.. our model is working fine. The sorts of players we are linked with or have brought in show we are on the right path..
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Disagree. Our squad is significantly weaker than it was at the end of the season and we've not signed anyone yet. We're not in a great place financially (as in we don't have loads to spend and we can't compete with parachute payment teams).

We're no closer to a promotion quality squad than we have been since relegation. We're scraping by and thanks to having a good manager we are in a decent position but our squad isn't strong and it's not because we've had to sell our players so we have a load of money to spend, it's because of short term overspending on loans instead of permanent recruitment.
 
Nano said:
Disagree. Our squad is significantly weaker than it was at the end of the season and we've not signed anyone yet. We're not in a great place financially (as in we don't have loads to spend and we can't compete with parachute payment teams).

We're no closer to a promotion quality squad than we have been since relegation. We're scraping by and thanks to having a good manager we are in a decent position but our squad isn't strong and it's not because we've had to sell our players so we have a load of money to spend, it's because of short term overspending on loans instead of permanent recruitment.
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behave man* were nowhere near the business end of the window. most contracts are to 30th June.. plus there's holidays internationals etc. Steffen, Giles, Mowett, Ramsey, Archer & Muniz.. all loan players. we're in a good place financially and just as you say we cant compete with parachute payments.. relegated clubs can't compete with a settled squad with experience of success in the championship. I'm sure we will improve on what we had last season.. it goes without saying that is our priority. Brynn, Coulson, Payero, Coburn & Hoppe return with an extra season under their belt and an upgraded management team. Clarke returns, Jones will improve and the academy prospects will be close to a first team start. we are vert much in a strong position right now before reinforcements have been brought in (5 of which could be loans) we are in a much better state than how we started last season and just as we have some new blood in the league.. so to will we see former contenders run out of steam through loosing key players.. some new contenders may well struggle to adapt to the championship.. its far from plain sailing.

our squad is strong and we've knocked the short term overspending on the head since the introduction of Woodgate. a maturing recruitment team is finding its feet and no doubt uncovering gems that will be more than fit for purpose.

this idea of selling Akpom, Fry, McNair, Jones and Crooks.. and then somehow building half the squad back with prospects with the view to selling them on and treading water with a sub six position? they're all crap.. but we're expecting £50m.. and we're bringing in.. 11 players immediately. nonsense (although we will probably bring in around that many altogether)

we have a strong squad, irons are in the fire and we will improve on last season

roll on the end of the transfer window.. FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 1ST 11PM

*EDIT
Yeah.. you're probably right.. seven
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