A tragic case or a deserved sentence?

[ThatFragranceGuy]

A few years ago I was in this same position after ched evans was jailed on a conviction for rape, took all the comments that people made. Not a peep when he was released on appeal and the conviction overturned.

Her sentence will be reduced on appeal.

Didn't ched evans appeal hinge strongly on the fact that she had basically done the same thing with some other blokes she slept with, and it was decided to allow discussion on the things she likes to do in bed and the things she said during sex? I think that definitely impacted his case and don't think there is a direct comparison here, at least i hope not lol

 

[Laughing]

Didn't ched evans appeal hinge strongly on the fact that she had basically done the same thing with some other blokes she slept with, and it was decided to allow discussion on the things she likes to do in bed and the things she said during sex? I think that definitely impacted his case and don't think there is a direct comparison here, at least i hope not lol

You are right the cases, not surprisingly, are very different. The point I was making was that cases can be reviewed and there is an appeal in process. I don't think this will stand. I can see a reduced sentence or suspended. Tellingly, perhaps, she was refused bail whilst the appeal goes through the courts.

 

[Redka]

I’ve seen quite a few comments suggesting the defendants attitude being a factor in the sentence - is that true. I’ve had a quick look and found this article which would suggest it’s not a factor. Can anybody confirm?

How Sentencing Works — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

Introduction to sentencing in the criminal courts – misconceptions, purposes, how courts decide on sentence, youth sentencing and the Sentencing Code.

www.defence-barrister.co.uk

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

I'm a bit confused. If it is a tiny pavement is that not a bit of mitigation? How does that make it worse?

What if instead of a cyclist it was someone pushing a pram? I'm sure in those circumstances she'd have happily moved to one side or waited for them to pass.

 

[Rofesleg]

What if instead of a cyclist it was someone pushing a pram? I'm sure in those circumstances she'd have happily moved to one side or waited for them to pass.

Yes, I get that. I was just puzzled why the fact it is a tiny pavement meant the sentence should be longer. I thought it would be more damning if it was a big wide path.
The tiny pavement was mentioned by someone who knows the specific road, but never mind it has been taken the wrong way.

 

[Laughing]

I’ve seen quite a few comments suggesting the defendants attitude being a factor in the sentence - is that true. I’ve had a quick look and found this article which would suggest it’s not a factor. Can anybody confirm?

How Sentencing Works — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

Introduction to sentencing in the criminal courts – misconceptions, purposes, how courts decide on sentence, youth sentencing and the Sentencing Code.

www.defence-barrister.co.uk

The single biggest factor that effects sentencing within the guidelines is a plea of guilty and how early in the process that happens.

In this case, once the judge decided a custodial sentence was appropriate he had gone right at the lower end. Jail sentence range from 2 years to life for manslaughter.

Other factors include victim impact. If the defendent shows remorse it may help victims come to terms and reduce sentencing. It must be born in mind that this doesn't put a price on human life.

 

[sherlock]

The single biggest factor that effects sentencing within the guidelines is a plea of guilty and how early in the process that happens.

In this case, once the judge decided a custodial sentence was appropriate he had gone right at the lower end. Jail sentence range from 2 years to life for manslaughter.

Other factors include victim impact. If the defendent shows remorse it may help victims come to terms and reduce sentencing. It must be born in mind that this doesn't put a price on human life.

This is why I think the sentence too low. It’s right at the lower end.

She did not plead guilty and she showed absolutely no remorse. The cyclist wasn’t the only victim either, the impact on the car driver will have been horrendous.

 

[Laughing]

This is why I think the sentence too low. It’s right at the lower end.

She did not plead guilty and she showed absolutely no remorse. The cyclist wasn’t the only victim either, the impact on the car driver will have been horrendous.

I understand why you think it's too low sherlock. I just don't agree.

 

[Redka]

The sentence given in this case will be an interesting yardstick - sentencing due March 14th.

Mum crashed into biker and killed him while 'trying to teach him a lesson'

Kerry Fair wanted to teach Thomas Maguire a lesson, but her actions caused his death.

metro.co.uk

 

[Millbrook]

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ don't know how long they take to appear though

The judges sentencing remarks can be found here;

Why Grey got three years

Judge explains manslaughter sentence on pedestrian who killed cyclist

rozenberg.substack.com

 

[Redka]

The judges sentencing remarks can be found here;

Why Grey got three years

Judge explains manslaughter sentence on pedestrian who killed cyclist

rozenberg.substack.com

It’s very subjective there a number of “I think” statements in there. Another judge could equally think another way.

I struggle with him dismissing her disability as a causal factor.

He also thinks it is a shared path. He should bloody well find out if he’s dishing out three year sentences - because if it’s not it’s a whole different story.

As sad as it is if the cyclist had been a young 18 year old male we would probably have a different outcome.

I think if there is an appeal this will be overturned.

Interesting - contrary to what others have said is the judge doesn’t know if there was contact.

 

[sherlock]

I struggle with him dismissing her disability as a causal factor

The only possible relevant disability is her visual impairment. The fact that she saw the cyclist some distance off and started to gesture (3 or 4 times before the contact was made) suggests this visual impairment was not sufficient enough to be accepted as a defence.

 

[Redka]

The only possible relevant disability is her visual impairment. The fact that she saw the cyclist some distance off and started to gesture (3 or 4 times before the contact was made) suggests this visual impairment was not sufficient enough to be accepted as a defence.

She saw the cyclist or see saw a blurry shape heading towards her - would be interested to know how bad her vision is.

 

[sherlock]

She saw the cyclist or see saw a blurry shape heading towards her - would be interested to know how bad her vision is.

Given the speed she was walking at in the run up to the incident, clearly not bad enough to stop her getting around!

She shouted 'get off the f***ing pavement', she knew it was a bike.

 

[Laughing]

The judges sentencing remarks can be found here;

Why Grey got three years

Judge explains manslaughter sentence on pedestrian who killed cyclist

rozenberg.substack.com

Thanks for that. It's difficult to disagree with much, if anything he said in his summing up.

I think, but certainly don't know, that dismissing any possible learning difficulties because she attended a mainstream school may be an error but, as I say, I don't know and that may well have been covered by a professional in the pre-sentencing report.

His baseline of 4 years is also reasonable and the fact that he went below that due to the mitigating handicaps she has lived with makes me more accepting of the sentence.

 

[Laughing]

It’s very subjective there a number of “I think” statements in there. Another judge could equally think another way.

I struggle with him dismissing her disability as a causal factor.

He also thinks it is a shared path. He should bloody well find out if he’s dishing out three year sentences - because if it’s not it’s a whole different story.

As sad as it is if the cyclist had been a young 18 year old male we would probably have a different outcome.

I think if there is an appeal this will be overturned.

Interesting - contrary to what others have said is the judge doesn’t know if there was contact.

After reading that I am not sure now it will be overturned on appeal.

You are right he should know wether its a dual use path, but I am not sure that would have made any difference to the verdict.

I also agree he was rather casual dismissing her handicap.

He did however move down from the baseline due to her good character and disabilities.

I am struggling to see an obvious error.

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

Linda Davis: E-scooter rider, 14, sentenced over woman's death

Linda Davis, 71, died after being hit by the teenager, who was riding a privately-owned scooter.

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting that there's not a comparable sentence in this case. If he'd not been a minor would there have been?
Personally I'd rather see a crackdown on Escooters on pavements than boats in the channel.

 

[Laughing]

The only possible relevant disability is her visual impairment. The fact that she saw the cyclist some distance off and started to gesture (3 or 4 times before the contact was made) suggests this visual impairment was not sufficient enough to be accepted as a defence.

The thing is you can't assume in a court of law. They tend to prefer facts.

 

[newusername]

Fortunately Auriol Grey has had her appeal refused. Shame the sentence wasn't increased.

Auriol Grey: Huntingdon cyclist killer fails in appeal bid

Auriol Grey confronted Celia Ward, who was cycling on a pavement and fell into the path of a car.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Lady Felicia]

I think that's just and fair, but crikey what a tragic and totally avoidable case.