A question?

FishofContemplation said:
If it matters enough to you and you wish her to be educated in the maintained sector you should:
A) send her to a school that is not voluntary aided or voluntary controlled by a faith organisation (there are plenty) and
B) campaign for the abolition of such status.

I’d support you in principle on the second (the first is none of my business) but you need to acknowledge the taxpayer practically, which is why it’s not top of my list of battles to fight.
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I just don't see why it's not a battle you want to fight though. Why shouldn't we stop religion defining our children and their ideology? Our children's ideology should be based on morals and have nothing to do with 2k year old doctrines, surely?
 
Aztec chimera said:
I just don't see why it's not a bottle you want to fight though. Why shouldn't we stop religion defining our children and their ideology? Our children's ideology should be based on morals and have nothing to do with 2k year old doctrines, surely?
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It’s a battle I want to fight in principle for the reasons you give. In practice, to take both the direct financial support and the soft support the faith groups give to VA and VC state schools would be a massive hit. To replace it with taxpayer funding will not happen with this mob and probably can’t even if we get them out.

So we sacrifice our children’s education on the altar of ideological purity or we balance it against the thought that the churches in this country probably mean well and we can kind of live with it. I lean to the latter. Reluctantly. I wouldn’t start from here but just now there are bigger priorities.
 
Aztec chimera said:
So, I have a 1 year old grandchild. I'm an atheist my daughter is I would say agnostic since her mother died. Where do we send my grandson so he's not indoctrinated in a faith neither of us believe in? My stance with my daughter when she was brought up in a faith school was to just let her believe in what she wanted just like santa and make her own mind up. But why should she have to have been subjected to anything I didn't believe in and why should my grandson?
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Our son goes to a RC school, but has been Christened C of E. Even though they are fairly heavy on the RE it has never been beat into him. Lot of different religions and ethnicities in his class, and all are respected.

I'm an atheist, and I have exactly the same views as you.....and I don't have any answers. We've also let our son believe what he wants to, but certainly not going to push anything religious when he goes to a heathen High School.

Found the religious aspect from the RC parents funny. Don't go to church. Don't do confession. But are the #1 Catholics for the Holy Communion and will be for getting their kids into the top RC High Schools. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 
FishofContemplation said:
It’s a battle I want to fight in principle for the reasons you give. In practice, to take both the direct financial support and the soft support the faith groups give to VA and VC state schools would be a massive hit. To replace it with taxpayer funding will not happen with this mob and probably can’t even if we get them out.

So we sacrifice our children’s education on the altar of ideological purity or we balance it against the thought that the churches in this country probably mean well and we can kind of live with it. I lean to the latter. Reluctantly. I wouldn’t start from here but just now there are bigger priorities.
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Flawed in every direction of your argument. So, given your argument. All faith schools are a good thing because they fund them? Does that make them right?
The government also contributes to every faith school. Does that make it right? What sacrifice are we making with our children's education?if we turn the funding of what was called RE when I was at school to sciences and mathematics. What a difference that could make. I had to endure 3 lessons a week for 1 hour at a time in RE. How much difference could that make
To society. An extra science or maths teacher better education could be given to our children in those 3 hours in modern technology?
 
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My kids are 16 and 15. They have had 0% religious indoctrination at school, pretty much the same as i had at school 30 years ago. We had the odd Christian assembly, but we also learned about other faiths in RE and we were taught about evolution in Science. I have absoloutely no idea what the OP is going on about.
 
Aztec chimera said:
Flawed in every direction of your argument. So, given your argument. All faith schools are a good thing because they fund them? Does that make them right?
The government also contributes to every faith school. Does that make it right? What sacrifice are we making with our children's education?if we turn the funding of what was called RE when I was at school to sciences and mathematics. What a difference that could make. I had to endure 3 lessons a week for 1 hour at a time in RE. How much difference could that make
To society. An extra science or maths teacher better education could be given to our children in those 3 hours in modern technology?
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Thats incredibly dogmatic. Basically you've decided that faith is not for you, so its automatically flawed and anyone who has a different way of looking at the world to you must be wrong.
People look at the available data and it leads them to believe different things to you, to say "oh thats not allowed thats not how i see it!" is a tad arrogant.
 
The Card Cheat said:
Thats incredibly dogmatic. Basically you've decided that faith is not for you, so its automatically flawed and anyone who has a different way of looking at the world to you must be wrong.
People look at the available data and it leads them to believe different things to you, to say "oh thats not allowed thats not how i see it!" is a tad arrogant.
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Kids dont have a choice they are indoctrinated by adults and teachers long before they are old enpugh to make a considered decision for example communion from age of 7. I went to a RC school and it definitely was about indoctrination. My mam was taught by nuns and they were truely awful abusive people. Faith is a personal choice it shouldn't have anything to do with school education.
 
tonybiriyani said:
Don't think they would be more expensive, the Catholic Church pays for the buildings and the land.
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TB - does the CC pay for the daily buses?

The RC secondary school in my area is in a village, while the local city does not have one, so it ended up with most of the kids living over 4 miles from the school. To Its credit its fully subscribed because they get good results, so quite a few non RC parents send their kids there.

The worst situation we had was a David Cameron Free School (secondary) ended up with 52 pupils designed for at least 200. It had millions spent on - own purpose built Fitness studio and Floristry shop both run as businesses to help pupils develop vocational skills. In its Ofsted inspection it got worst possible grade in every category. My guess it was costing around £40,000 per pupil per year. All public funded. It was not special needs. Closed after 6 years, now not a school.
 
The Card Cheat said:
Thats incredibly dogmatic. Basically you've decided that faith is not for you, so its automatically flawed and anyone who has a different way of looking at the world to you must be wrong.
People look at the available data and it leads them to believe different things to you, to say "oh thats not allowed thats not how i see it!" is a tad arrogant.
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That is not at all what I said. What I am saying is why isn't there a choice for parents to send their children to a government funded school that does not use religion as its core value?
 
Aztec chimera said:
That is not at all what I said. What I am saying is why isn't there a choice for parents to send their children to a government funded school that does not use religion as its core value?
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I’m not really sure that religion is a ‘core’ value in most schools
There is also enough evidence around that religious indoctrination isn’t a factor for our children, and hasn’t been for some time.
Churches, of all denominations are emptier than ever and there are less ‘believers’ than they have ever been.

I realise, btw, none of that may help as we worry about our kids so much don’t we? I hope you find a way through this.
 
Redwurzel said:
TB - does the CC pay for the daily buses?

The RC secondary school in my area is in a village, while the local city does not have one, so it ended up with most of the kids living over 4 miles from the school. To Its credit its fully subscribed because they get good results, so quite a few non RC parents send their kids there.

The worst situation we had was a David Cameron Free School (secondary) ended up with 52 pupils designed for at least 200. It had millions spent on - own purpose built Fitness studio and Floristry shop both run as businesses to help pupils develop vocational skills. In its Ofsted inspection it got worst possible grade in every category. My guess it was costing around £40,000 per pupil per year. All public funded. It was not special needs. Closed after 6 years, now not a school.
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Don't know how transport is funded Redwurzel.
 
I completely disagree that people of faith are the most tolerant. The shouty, dogmatic atheists mentioned are trying to fight against centuries of abhorrent behaviour and persecution. Look around the world today and see where restrictions and human rights abuses are carried out and they are predominantly in places that are heavily influenced by religion. Look at all the nonsense in the US with the backwards steps on abortion, the banning of saying things are gay etc. All done by the religious.

I do agree that the atheists are less tolerant of religion as a whole than religious people are of atheism (at least over here). You have to put it in to context though and religion has a huge advantage because it is taught as a default to huge swathes of the country via the school system. It's obviously going to seem one sided when a side is attacking against a status quo.

Kids tend to believe the stories they are told and religion isn't taught in school with caveats about it not being true. It is the very definition of indoctrination. If parents want that for their children then they should get that from church. I disagree with it being taught in schools because we are often left without the ability to choose. If you want to send your children to a good school then a lot of times they are faith schools.

Faith has it's place in society if people want to choose it but it shouldn't be in schools.
 
Nano said:
I completely disagree that people of faith are the most tolerant. The shouty, dogmatic atheists mentioned are trying to fight against centuries of abhorrent behaviour and persecution. Look around the world today and see where restrictions and human rights abuses are carried out and they are predominantly in places that are heavily influenced by religion. Look at all the nonsense in the US with the backwards steps on abortion, the banning of saying things are gay etc. All done by the religious.

I do agree that the atheists are less tolerant of religion as a whole than religious people are of atheism (at least over here). You have to put it in to context though and religion has a huge advantage because it is taught as a default to huge swathes of the country via the school system. It's obviously going to seem one sided when a side is attacking against a status quo.

Kids tend to believe the stories they are told and religion isn't taught in school with caveats about it not being true. It is the very definition of indoctrination. If parents want that for their children then they should get that from church. I disagree with it being taught in schools because we are often left without the ability to choose. If you want to send your children to a good school then a lot of times they are faith schools.

Faith has it's place in society if people want to choose it but it shouldn't be in schools.
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Dogmatic or……
Godmatic 😂
 
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