A change of shape

Diego

Diego

Well-known member
Is it time now to try a slightly changed shape? Maybe lose no 10 and go 433. Midfield is getting overrun and isn’t offering enough protection to the defence and they can do with all the protection they can get because They have been terrible, Fry especially has been so poor so far this season.

This problem could be rectified if we sign an actual midfielder who can get around the pitch and tackle but until then this may be the best solution.
 
We have some options as well.

In a 3 you could drop McGree deeper, play Payero (unlikely), play Crooks in his more natural position.

I still think one of the main problems is confidence leading to stupid mistakes, but maybe be a bit more cautious for a few games.

Would not be against giving VDB or Mcnair (or both) a run out at centre back - I actually think lenihan and fry have been poor. Lenihan has looked really weak and is targeted in the air every game at the moment.
 
Personally, I think we need a good number 10 instead! I hope I'm wrong but Rogers is not good enough, the ball needs to stick more up top, if it doesn't it just comes straight back to our defence.

I like the formation, it works as we seen last season it just needs tweaking that's all
 
MFC_1990 said:
Personally, I think we need a good number 10 instead! I hope I'm wrong but Rogers is not good enough, the ball needs to stick more up top, if it doesn't it just comes straight back to our defence.

I like the formation, it works as we seen last season it just needs tweaking that's all
Click to expand...
Agree rodgers is no striker and he doesnt look like a no 10 either
 
I'd go along with the 433 idea. The issue as I see it is that nobody in the squad is capable of playing the 10 role in the way or with the success that Akpom did last season... so it's pointless trying to force them to.

I'd also say it's great in theory saying get a new number 10 who's better, but the reality is we're not going to be able to buy someone we can reliably expect to recreate Akpoms performances with the money we have.
 
Diego said:
Is it time now to try a slightly changed shape? Maybe lose no 10 and go 433. Midfield is getting overrun and isn’t offering enough protection to the defence and they can do with all the protection they can get because They have been terrible, Fry especially has been so poor so far this season.

This problem could be rectified if we sign an actual midfielder who can get around the pitch and tackle but until then this may be the best solution.
Click to expand...
Yes for me. I think we have the players for it.

Although a big part of the problem has been too many soft goals from set pieces. Which is nothing to do with formation. We need a proper aggressive stopper in that back line. I'd say it's as pressing as any other position.
 
MFC_1990 said:
Personally, I think we need a good number 10 instead! I hope I'm wrong but Rogers is not good enough, the ball needs to stick more up top, if it doesn't it just comes straight back to our defence.

I like the formation, it works as we seen last season it just needs tweaking that's all
Click to expand...
I think that's how we got sussed towards the end of last year " don't let chuba turn" ..
They didn't..
 
festa5 said:
Yes for me. I think we have the players for it.

Although a big part of the problem has been too many soft goals from set pieces. Which is nothing to do with formation. We need a proper aggressive stopper in that back line. I'd say it's as pressing as any other position.
Click to expand...
Definetly. The Fry and Lenihan partnership just isn’t working. Whole team lacks aggression sadly.
 
For me it's too early to get too radical and start changing shape. Confidence (or lack of) is playing a huge part. Marginal calls going against us, mistakes, heads drop etc, it's a viscous circle.

Some hard work on the training ground on defensive shape, try and stop leaking goals and regain a bit of belief and I'm sure things will change for us (2 or 3 quality additions this week would help too though, especially someone really nasty, for some time now we've been just too nice).
 
Diego said:
Is it time now to try a slightly changed shape? Maybe lose no 10 and go 433. Midfield is getting overrun and isn’t offering enough protection to the defence and they can do with all the protection they can get because They have been terrible, Fry especially has been so poor so far this season.

This problem could be rectified if we sign an actual midfielder who can get around the pitch and tackle but until then this may be the best solution.
Click to expand...
I don't think we have enough CM's to play with three? If it is for more protection that pretty much rules out McGree and Payero you would think? So McNair, Howson and Hackney with Barlaser to rotate in and out, maybe Agyemang as a long shot?

Fry has been really poor, he was absolutely dreadful against Hartlepool pre-season, he got totally outdone by none-league players. He seems to be going backwards.

We are struggling at full back too, Dijksteel and McNair have both played pretty well as the RCB in a three and I assume Engels could maybe play LCB 3-4-3 could be possible? But I'm pretty sure Carrick will stick with our usual set up.

I assume a panic signing or two this week, hopefully a robust, combative midfielder and a CAM/10. If we can get a big roughty-toughty Champo experienced CB in that probably wouldn't hurt either, and maybe a centre forward in that mould too.

We are too small, soft and nice all over the pitch. Teams must love playing us, no great strength, aggression, power, set piece threat. We don't niggle and wind up, we don't put refs under any pressure to give us decisions or get opposition players booked.

We're a team of absolute fannies in the main.
 
Howson and Hackney are too static when we lose the ball and they get turned over so easily.

They are nowhere to be seen when opposition players are running directly at the CBs. Get past them and you have a clear shot on goal.

Something needs to be addressed here. I’m not gunna pretend I know what needs to be done but I would like to think people like Carrick, Woodgate and Danks would have a good idea.

Let’s hope they start working on it asap.
 
festa5 said:
Yes for me. I think we have the players for it.

Although a big part of the problem has been too many soft goals from set pieces. Which is nothing to do with formation. We need a proper aggressive stopper in that back line. I'd say it's as pressing as any other position
Click to expand...

Ravshoutsatbeck said:
We have some options as well.

In a 3 you could drop McGree deeper, play Payero (unlikely), play Crooks in his more natural position.

I still think one of the main problems is confidence leading to stupid mistakes, but maybe be a bit more cautious for a few games.

Would not be against giving VDB or Mcnair (or both) a run out at centre back - I actually think lenihan and fry have been poor. Lenihan has looked really weak and is targeted in the air every game at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'd rather play crooks or barlaser in a three , than Rodgers as a '10 ' ..
Crooks brings some physicality/experience /set piece use .. and can score on occasion..

Barlaser can pass a ball , and it would allow howson to protect the defense more / hackney to move with the ball ( his best attribute ) .

Either / or is better that the current thinking IMHO
It would allow Jones / mcgree / Silvera to stay wide and / or drift.
 
BoroMart said:
Changing shape won’t stop us playing suicidal back passes or letting your man go from midfield unchallenged. It’s the mindset and work ethic that needs to change
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I agree but I just think it’s something worth thinking about until we sign some players to suit this formation. We can’t keep going this way as things stands. We are to easy to play against. A change of shape might just help us next weekend in my opinion.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
Howson and Hackney are too static when we lose the ball and they get turned over so easily.

They are nowhere to be seen when opposition players are running directly at the CBs. Get past them and you have a clear shot on goal.

Something needs to be addressed here. I’m not gunna pretend I know what needs to be done but I would like to think people like Carrick, Woodgate and Danks would have a good idea.

Let’s hope they start working on it asap.
Click to expand...
Exactly. As soon as opposition players get the ball in the half turn and by pass the midfield I just think goal every time. That second goal today was so so simple for WBA it is really concerning if this is a sign of how the season looks for us.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
They are nowhere to be seen when opposition players are running directly at the CBs. Get past them and you have a clear shot on goal.
Click to expand...

That is the weird thing for me, as a player Carrick's trade mark was deep lying midfielder, in front of the defence, sniffing out danger, cutting out passes, winning possession and starting counter attacks. So our set-up now is baffling me a bit.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
Howson and Hackney are too static when we lose the ball and they get turned over so easily.

They are nowhere to be seen when opposition players are running directly at the CBs. Get past them and you have a clear shot on goal.

Something needs to be addressed here. I’m not gunna pretend I know what needs to be done but I would like to think people like Carrick, Woodgate and Danks would have a good idea.

Let’s hope they start working on it asap.
Click to expand...
They're being asked to do too much. It's like Barca playing Xavi and Iniesta but no Busquets. We're expecting them to dictate the play, provide service to the forwards and also protect the back line.

You might, might, just get away with it if you're free scoring or your defenders are outstanding individual players. But thats not where were at.

It does have a feel of Mowbray towards the end, we didn't play with a proper holding midfielder, players were able to run onto the centre backs and good defenders looked poor for it.

No coincidence one of Karanka's first major signings was Clayton.
 
Caesium137 said:
I don't think we have enough CM's to play with three? If it is for more protection that pretty much rules out McGree and Payero you would think? So McNair, Howson and Hackney with Barlaser to rotate in and out, maybe Agyemang as a long shot?

Fry has been really poor, he was absolutely dreadful against Hartlepool pre-season, he got totally outdone by none-league players. He seems to be going backwards.

We are struggling at full back too, Dijksteel and McNair have both played pretty well as the RCB in a three and I assume Engels could maybe play LCB 3-4-3 could be possible? But I'm pretty sure Carrick will stick with our usual set up.

I assume a panic signing or two this week, hopefully a robust, combative midfielder and a CAM/10. If we can get a big roughty-toughty Champo experienced CB in that probably wouldn't hurt either, and maybe a centre forward in that mould too.

We are too small, soft and nice all over the pitch. Teams must love playing us, no great strength, aggression, power, set piece threat. We don't niggle and wind up, we don't put refs under any pressure to give us decisions or get opposition players booked.

We're a team of absolute fannies in the main.
Click to expand...
We probably don’t have the required cover but I think just a short term solution to try get a bit of solidity and hopefully a first win on the board it’s probably worth it for next weekend. If we get some players in before the deadline too then great get them integrated for after the international break.

I’m not a Barlaser fan by any stretch but it would be interesting to see if he went in there alongside Howson and Hackney to see how we performed.

If not that then I would be Happy for Crooks to be used in midfield as can look good there as he showed plenty of times under Wilder.

A ball winning, energetic midfielder is a must for me before the deadline shuts. Will be extremely disappointed if we don’t bring anyone in.
 
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