45% DROP IN BRITISH ACTS BOOKED FOR EUROPEAN FESTIVALS POST-BREXIT

Redwurzel said:
Cheers Lefty

I assume the carnets are purely for financial reasons (taxes/duties).

An obvious solution would be to significantly raise the £600 threshold for touring bands. Who set £600 for bands? It feels like a figure that is set for individual tourists but has been applied to effectively a business (band).

It appears from the article £1000 cost of paperwork needs to be completed on equipment that might be even worth less than the cost of the paperwork which is crazy. In theory it could be cheaper to buy new and sell or rent equipment in the country of performance. Or do musicians feel their equipment is irreplaceable i.e. I can only perform with my own personal equipment?

On £600 of equipment there is only about £120 worth of tax? (20%).
In the past people people used to bring a van of booze that costs the UK Government more than £120 or a party of 4 could bring 800 cigs between them without paying any UK tax (over £240 lost in tax)?

Its good that this is highlighted. It is something that needs tweaking or if not there is a potential business opportunity for equipment loaners.

I guess big bands just pay the £1000 every year and add to their high touring costs.

Just a thought, but if there was festival in a freeport area would there not be a problem with carnets?
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This is like discussing gun ownership with an American.
 
Redwurzel said:
Cheers Lefty

I assume the carnets are purely for financial reasons (taxes/duties).

An obvious solution would be to significantly raise the £600 threshold for touring bands. Who set £600 for bands? It feels like a figure that is set for individual tourists but has been applied to effectively a business (band).

It appears from the article £1000 cost of paperwork needs to be completed on equipment that might be even worth less than the cost of the paperwork which is crazy. In theory it could be cheaper to buy new and sell or rent equipment in the country of performance. Or do musicians feel their equipment is irreplaceable i.e. I can only perform with my own personal equipment?

On £600 of equipment there is only about £120 worth of tax? (20%).
In the past people people used to bring a van of booze that costs the UK Government more than £120 or a party of 4 could bring 800 cigs between them without paying any UK tax (over £240 lost in tax)?

Its good that this is highlighted. It is something that needs tweaking or if not there is a potential business opportunity for equipment loaners.

I guess big bands just pay the £1000 every year and add to their high touring costs.

Just a thought, but if there was festival in a freeport area would there not be a problem with carnets?
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The big bands will employ their own specialists to sort all this. It will cost them a lot more than £1,000 but they will have a lot more equipment and will be travelling through many countries.

The small bands can't and they used to rely on the European tour money just to keep going, because they earned more money. You can't make a living from record sales and UK tours aren't lucrative for bands who are Twisterella size.
 
Redwurzel said:
It appears from the article £1000 cost of paperwork needs to be completed on equipment that might be even worth less than the cost of the paperwork which is crazy. In theory it could be cheaper to buy new and sell or rent equipment in the country of performance. Or do musicians feel their equipment is irreplaceable i.e. I can only perform with my own personal equipment?
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There is a complicated ritual. The equipment serial numbers are entered on the carnet…and that piece of equipment must match the numbers on the carnet when leaving or entering the next country That is one of the reasons carnets exist to stop you selling gear.
 
Ziggy said:
There is a complicated ritual. The equipment serial numbers are entered on the carnet…and that piece of equipment must match the numbers on the carnet when leaving or entering the next country That is one of the reasons carnets exist to stop you selling gear.
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Why can't they just change all the laws in each country so that we don't have to think of a single really easy solution to this?

Sorry, Rw. I don't think I quite got the spirit of the questioning there.
 
Most countries overlook spare “perishables” drum heads, sticks and strings in small quantities.
Japan for instance doesn’t. So for a couple of hundred quids worth of bits that are not on the carnet.
Can cost.
 
SmallTown said:
This as a grade brexitist deflection. The cult thanks you.

Of course it's a tragedy that this is affecting yet another industry. And yes it's a tragedy the usual suspects don't care about this and would rather just defend their unicorn
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....however, after touring in the UK earlier this year , they'll be heading for the US and Canada to complete their schedule
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
Why can't they just change all the laws in each country so that we don't have to think of a single really easy solution to this?

Sorry, Rw. I don't think I quite got the spirit of the questioning there.
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You seem to be in the same boat as me - it appears to an outsider there is system in place internationally that is not designed for musical touring bands but it is applied to them. Its become an more of an issue in the UK as some bands have got used to performing occasionally in EU countries and now the authorities (either UK or EU or both) say everything has to be logged many times over in multiple copies to create around 40 hours work.

People take cars, vans, coaches across borders and bring them back, without carnets don't they? the vehicles are taxable pieces of equipment including fitted video and audio equipment.

To me the issue can be easily sorted if the authorities want to change it.

Professional pianists do perform on pianos belonging to the venue which would avoid these import/export tax issues, probably because pianos are a pain to transport is the main reason for not using theor own paino. I have an ex- colleague who tunes the pianos that belong to the venues such as Birmingham Symphony Hall. Elton John is probably different but he is in an elite.
 
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Redwurzel said:
You seem to be in the same boat as me - it appears to an outsider there is system in place internationally that is not designed for musical touring bands but it is applied to them. Its become an more of an issue in the UK as some bands have got used to performing occasionally in EU countries and now the authorities (either UK or EU or both) say everything has to be logged many times over in multiple copies to create around 40 hours work.

People take cars, vans, coaches across borders and bring them back, without carnets don't they? the vehicles are taxable pieces of equipment including fitted video and audio equipment.

To me the issue can be easily sorted if the authorities want to change it.

Professional pianists do perform on pianos belonging to the venue which would avoid these import/export tax issues, probably because pianos are a pain to transport. I have an ex- colleague who tunes the pianos that belong to the venues such as Birmingham Symphony Hall.
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I read a story the other day about UK motorcyclists complaining that they also face barriers and carnets if they want to take a bike on a trailer to the EU for track racing events. Should the rules also be changed for them?

And on and on ...
 
Prisoner - Yes - it should raised above £600 for motor bikes and musical equipment.

Unless, its obvious someone is doing this as a business just to avoid taxes i.e moving a different bike out every week annd not bringing it back etc.

Can people still bring in 200 fags a day (£125 a day) and avoid tax - I would say relative to music equipment the cigs value is much bigger in potential lost tax.

Nowaday we must have the technology to create barcodes/qr codes that can be tracked quite easily.
 
Redwurzel said:
You seem to be in the same boat as me - it appears to an outsider there is system in place internationally that is not designed for musical touring bands but it is applied to them. Its become an more of an issue in the UK as some bands have got used to performing occasionally in EU countries and now the authorities (either UK or EU or both) say everything has to be logged many times over in multiple copies to create around 40 hours work.

People take cars, vans, coaches across borders and bring them back, without carnets don't they? the vehicles are taxable pieces of equipment including fitted video and audio equipment.

To me the issue can be easily sorted if the authorities want to change it.

Professional pianists do perform on pianos belonging to the venue which would avoid these import/export tax issues, probably because pianos are a pain to transport. I have an ex- colleague who tunes the pianos that belong to the venues such as Birmingham Symphony Hall.
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There is no reason, if you’re not involved in the business, that it all seems easily solvable. Third Country now. A completely new reality.
There are some bands that work in Europe not occasionally but a lot…they’re better known there than here.
You’ve probably, like me never heard of them.
Pre Brexit. A band would get a few gigs in France or wherever. Pack their stuff in a Transit and off they went no carnet, visa, work permits. You might get stopped by customs….flash the contracts and everything was usually ok. They don’t like stripping stuff down. Over the years hundreds of bands have got the ferries across to Europe to work. What it really does is stop young bands going out and learning their trade and getting a bit more money…and finding out what it’s like to tour.
It’s exciting and fun and different from up and down in the UK. Oldies do it still too.
It’s what musicians do, they go out and play music…wherever they can
 
Ziggy - you are correct on music I used read the NME every week ........................in 1978/9!

I worked quite closely in teaching with the former pianist in Blur and with Billy Bragg, but they were in the industry in the 1990s.

Touring I guess in the late 70s was at least 95% in the UK, for young new bands.

The Beatles going to Hamburg in 1961 was quite exotic, but to my knowledge they did not even tour then just staying in one city.

As said if its a problem for mainland UK bands, it also creates more opportunities in the UK for UK bands too?

I tend to dislike articles that are not balanced, you feel you can't trust them, however I am interested in what is happening around me and try to offer solutions and suggestions. I didn't post this story but it interested me as it seems soemthing that could easily be overcome and a bit of a silly.

I have also not followed my own advice and not checked the source of the article some group called Best For Britain who obviously have a particular distinct political agenda.
 
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Redwurzel said:
Ziggy - you are correct on music I used read the NME every week ........................in 1978/9!

I worked quite closely in teaching with the former pianist in Blur and with Billy Bragg, but they were in the industry in the 1990s.

Touring I guess in the late 70s was at least 95% in the UK, for young new bands.

The Beatles going to Hamburg in 1961 was quite exotic, but to my knowledge they did not even tour then just staying in one city.

As said if its a problem for mainland UK bands, it also creates more opportunities in the UK for UK bands too?

I tend to dislike articles that are not balanced, you feel you can't trust them, however I am interested in what is happening around me and try to offer solutions and suggestions. I didn't post this story but it interested me as it seems soemthing that could easily be overcome and a bit of a silly.
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Very easy to overcome, but not something the Tories will do.
 
20% of the UK’s small music venues have closed in the last 15 years, with 54 closing since 2014 and 26 venues closing in the last two years. This doesn’t take account the amount of pub type gigs that have gone
Sure there’s lots of really good musicians and bands around. But there are fewer and fewer places to play.
And you only get better by doing it.

accessaa.co.uk

20% of UK’s small venues closed over 15 years, says study - Access All Areas

Insure4Music has found that 20% of small music venues in the UK have closed in the last 15 years One small music venue is closing every month in the UK on average over the last two years. That’s according to an interactive map from Insure4Music, which illustrates the UK’s open and closed small...
accessaa.co.uk accessaa.co.uk
 
Erimus11 said:
....however, after touring in the UK earlier this year , they'll be heading for the US and Canada to complete their schedule
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I don't understand? You think that removing a massive market for UK music is fine? Just so you can have your blue passports and hate polish people?

Is that what we've become? You'll literally not care about anyone in any industry as all these costs and delays and restrictions to business bite? Why? Is it THAT important to you to pretend you weren't fooled that you'll openly admit you don't care about people struggling?
 
Lefty said:
Because Brexit was about shutting down free movement of Labour?

No, no, can't be that.
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Or even more fundamentally, for the architects of it, it's always been largely about taking away rights and freedoms. Brexit supporters might cheer that those rights and freedoms are being taken away from Johnny Foreigner. What they don't realise is that it's just as much, if not more so, about taking them away from the British people too.

Think Jacob Rees Mogg is currently working on his wish list of which ones he'd like to do away with next isn't he?

So of course we were going to turn down any reciprocal agreements like that.

The great British public have apparently given this government a huge mandate to take away freedoms from its own people. Can't have the sneaky EU trying to undermine the "will of the people" on that sort of thing.

British bands for British audiences or something.
 
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