‘We don’t have a natural replacement for kalvin phillips’

Wasn’t expecting for the manager to be wanting Kalvin Phillips of 3 years ago 2 games into the tournament. Very worrying.

At least that statement confirms we won’t see Trent again in midfield
 
I posted this on the Alexander-Arnold thread but I think it’s relevant here so have copied and pasted it.

Surely people can understand now why he was so keen to get Phillips and Henderson into his squad. Those players gave us real balance and allowed Rice to play his natural game. Without Henderson and Phillips you’re asking a young lad to come in, in Wharton or Mainoo, or asking a talented right-back to do something for his country that he doesn’t really do for his club. There is a dearth of options in central midfield and it’s been there for years and years, this is why Southgate has placed so much emphasis on building a strong defence, to account for that lack of quality in central midfield.

Over the years he’s lost Mount, Henderson, Alli and Phillips. There’s some talent there. You take Rice out of our midfield and it’s teenagers and Gallagher. The lack of a true, elite-level No6 has held this team back for the last 4 or 5 years. England just doesn’t seem to produce them. It’s easy to criticise Southgate and some of it is merited but his hands are somewhat tied imo. Though I do think if he’s picking Mainoo or Wharton then one of them should be playing midfield ahead of Alexander-Arnold.

Alternatively, Bellingham could play there and you could get Foden more central and Eze or Gordon down the left. But there’s a gaping, long-standing hole in our team that’s been completely exacerbated by Phillips’ form nosediving and Henderson moving to Saudi Arabia, and fixing it is much easier said than done because whatever he does is a fairly big risk. It would be the same for any England manager.
 
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viv_andersons_nana said:
I posted this on the Alexander-Arnold thread but I think it’s relevant here so have copied and pasted it.

Surely people can understand now why he was so keen to get Phillips and Henderson into his squad. Those players gave us real balance and allowed Rice to play his natural game. Without Rice and Phillips you’re asking a young lad to come in, in Wharton or Mainoo, or asking a talented right-back to do something for his country that he doesn’t really do for his club. There is a dearth of options in central midfield and it’s been there for years and years, this is why Southgate has placed so much emphasis on building a strong defence, to account for that lack of quality in central midfield.

Over the years he’s lost Mount, Henderson, Alli and Phillips. There’s some talent there. You take Rice out of our midfield and it’s teenagers and Gallagher. The lack of a true, elite-level No6 has held this team back for the last 4 or 5 years. England just doesn’t seem to produce them. It’s easy to criticise Southgate and some of it is merited but his hands are somewhat tied imo. Though I do think if he’s picking Mainoo or Wharton then one of them should be playing midfield ahead of Alexander-Arnold.

Alternatively, Bellingham could play there and you could get Foden more central and Eze or Gordon down the left. But there’s a gaping, long-standing hole in our team that’s been completely exacerbated by Phillips’ form nosediving and Henderson moving to Saudi Arabia, and fixing it is much easier said than done because whatever he does is a fairly big risk. It would be the same for any England manager.
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Then let a young lad come in. Southgate has been poor with regards to his midfield selection. The young lad could be Bellingham, who has played there for most of his short career. He chooses a right back. Pitiful.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Then let a young lad come in. Southgate has been poor with regards to his midfield selection. The young lad could be Bellingham, who has played there for most of his short career. He chooses a right back. Pitiful.
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I did say that I think one of those younger players should be playing ahead of TAA. Though I would say that we are pretty much through, unscathed, having tried something out and worked it out now rather than having to do it in the next round. That’s the positive spin I suppose. I’m not saying we can’t or couldn’t play better football, I just think some of the criticism is a bit over the top.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I posted this on the Alexander-Arnold thread but I think it’s relevant here so have copied and pasted it.

Surely people can understand now why he was so keen to get Phillips and Henderson into his squad. Those players gave us real balance and allowed Rice to play his natural game. Without Rice and Phillips you’re asking a young lad to come in, in Wharton or Mainoo, or asking a talented right-back to do something for his country that he doesn’t really do for his club. There is a dearth of options in central midfield and it’s been there for years and years, this is why Southgate has placed so much emphasis on building a strong defence, to account for that lack of quality in central midfield.

Over the years he’s lost Mount, Henderson, Alli and Phillips. There’s some talent there. You take Rice out of our midfield and it’s teenagers and Gallagher. The lack of a true, elite-level No6 has held this team back for the last 4 or 5 years. England just doesn’t seem to produce them. It’s easy to criticise Southgate and some of it is merited but his hands are somewhat tied imo. Though I do think if he’s picking Mainoo or Wharton then one of them should be playing midfield ahead of Alexander-Arnold.

Alternatively, Bellingham could play there and you could get Foden more central and Eze or Gordon down the left. But there’s a gaping, long-standing hole in our team that’s been completely exacerbated by Phillips’ form nosediving and Henderson moving to Saudi Arabia, and fixing it is much easier said than done because whatever he does is a fairly big risk. It would be the same for any England manager.
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You won’t be popular with a few on here writing such sense.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I did say that I think one of those younger players should be playing ahead of TAA. Though I would say that we are pretty much through, unscathed, having tried something out and worked it out now rather than having to do it in the next round. That’s the positive spin I suppose. I’m not saying we can’t or couldn’t play better football, I just think some of the criticism is a bit over the top.
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Yeah we're through which is good news but for me now is not the time to be experimenting. Trent will likely drop out now and to be totally honest no one really knows what our best team is and that includes Southgate.

The best chance of success is if stumble onto something because at the moment we look like a team of strangers out on the pitch.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I did say that I think one of those younger players should be playing ahead of TAA. Though I would say that we are pretty much through, unscathed, having tried something out and worked it out now rather than having to do it in the next round. That’s the positive spin I suppose. I’m not saying we can’t or couldn’t play better football, I just think some of the criticism is a bit over the top.
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That's fair enough, we do look like we need to adjust to move on for me. Let's see how we do against Slovenia before we hit the tougher opposition later in the tournament.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
That's fair enough, we do look like we need to adjust to move on for me. Let's see how we do against Slovenia before we hit the tougher opposition later in the tournament.
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I would really like to see Wharton get a start there. I’d have loved to have some him play the two full friendlies and these three group games tbh. Or even if it was Mainoo that played the lot, you’d see there was some continuity planning. Those two look like they could be around the team for the next decade. I understand why he’s tried playing TAA there but when those players, like him and Stones, do it for City or Liverpool they’re doing it in finely tuned, well-oiled machines and in a system that has been adjusted to accommodate what they bring to that role. There just isn’t the scope to do that at international level imo. The England team is wildly different to those two club teams, and international football very different to the club game.

It’s sort of like when Roy did it with Rooney. You can sort of see why he would give it a bash but when you see it play out on the field you think, yeah, right, that’s not the best idea is it. I think we will be found out here. And we were. By Iceland.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I would really like to see Wharton get a start there. I’d have loved to have some him play the two full friendlies and these three group games tbh. Or even if it was Mainoo that played the lot, you’d see there was some continuity planning. Those two look like they could be around the team for the next decade. I understand why he’s tried playing TAA there but when those players, like him and Stones, do it for City or Liverpool they’re doing it in finely tuned, well-oiled machines and in a system that has been adjusted to accommodate what they bring to that role. There just isn’t the scope to do that at international level imo.
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It should have been done prior to the finals tournament. Together with a left back, we've all known the situation there for a long time
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
It should have been done prior to the finals tournament. Together with a left back, we've all known the situation there for a long time
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I agree, definitely on the left back as well. You can’t go with only one half-fit orthodox left back when you have the luxury of being able to name 26 players. The Palace left back should’ve been included imo. It would’ve worked quite nicely with him and Guehi, you’d not need to wait for them to build an understanding, you’d have two good players in their proper roles and we’d have a much more evenly balanced side which would probably help Foden out as well.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I agree, definitely on the left back as well. You can’t go with only one half-fit orthodox left back when you have the luxury of being able to name 26 players. The Palace left back should’ve been included imo. It would’ve worked quite nicely with him and Guehi, you’d not need to wait for them to build an understanding, you’d have two good players in their proper roles and we’d have a much balanced side which would probably help Foden out as well.
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There’s an argument to say you could have Guehi LCB, Mitchell LB, Wharton CM and Eze LW.

The understanding they would all have would help massively.

It’s a shame Mitchell was not selected. A mistake from Southgate.
 
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I don’t think having Philips or Henderson of yesteryear would make any difference. The team drops so deep and the only out ball with pace is Saka.
If you’re planning to sit so deep there needs to be more pace for the counter. In both games the ball just kept coming back.
 
LowMoorBoro said:
I don’t think having Philips or Henderson of yesteryear would make any difference. The team drops so deep and the only out ball with pace is Saka.
If you’re planning to sit so deep there needs to be more pace for the counter. In both games the ball just kept coming back.
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But if you had Phillips sitting then Rice can go marauding off and set the tone. He can link the midfield and the attacking players, dragging the opposition midfielders along with him. He can do what he does brilliantly at league level. If you have him playing as the No6 then you lose all of that and your team can look really disjointed at times.
 
I think with Mitchell, it’s reminded me of Spain playing Joan Capdevila at left back in 2008. He always says he was nowhere near the levels of the others and thought he was very lucky to be there but the national team coach picked him because he was the best available left back and brought the balance, which helped the others do what they do best. He could’ve probably chosen from a handful of more talented players and got one of them to do a job there, but you lose something when you do that. I think if you’re looking to play with an orthodox left back then pick the best one available. Don’t pick Trippier to fill in there while you wait for someone to try and get fit, just because Trippier has more caps and has filled in there before. Just simplify it.
 
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