Starmer sacks shadow transport minister for appearing on picket line

bumface said:
We'll agree to disagree then mate. I'm just old fashioned Labour. I want a Labour Party that supports workers rights and doesn't crap on them. I don't do compromise mate. As others have said on this thread, it's called The Labour Party. The clue is in the name. Centrists don't seem to understand that.
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You can support workers rights without picketing with them. James obrien made a good point about starmer being unpolitical in as much as he is interested in the process' for improvement rather than the optics. Standing on a picket line does nothing for the rmt's problems. Starmer is more interested in how you fix the problem.
 
borolad259 said:
Starmer's going to have fun over the next year. The RMT strike and the BT strike are just the beginning. Working people are going to feel a shed load of financial pain while the likes of Centrica rake in record profits. The public purse has been raided by private hands like never before. Serious discontent ahead I think.
I can't abide the likes of Starmer. He ain't the answer.
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He may not be the answer, he certainly isn't the problem.
 
borolad259 said:
Starmer's going to have fun over the next year. The RMT strike and the BT strike are just the beginning. Working people are going to feel a shed load of financial pain while the likes of Centrica rake in record profits. The public purse has been raided by private hands like never before. Serious discontent ahead I think.
I can't abide the likes of Starmer. He ain't the answer.
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It cost my daughter £300 to get to London by train the other day due to cancelled trains etc because of the strike, she is now having a hell of a job reclaiming it.

She‘s a medical student, she has no spare money other than what I give her.

This is the reality of strikes for ordinary people.

And she votes Labour.
 
borolad259 said:
Starmer's going to have fun over the next year. The RMT strike and the BT strike are just the beginning. Working people are going to feel a shed load of financial pain while the likes of Centrica rake in record profits. The public purse has been raided by private hands like never before. Serious discontent ahead I think.
I can't abide the likes of Starmer. He ain't the answer.
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If Starmer isn't the answer then the answer is the status quo - more Tory.

I know what you are saying though, you would prefer Labour with a leader that suits your own political views, that is fair enough. Sadly though the position we find ourselves in means that Starmer's Labour is the only answer to TRY and change some of the problems in the country. Unless we think Truss is the answer to our woes.
 
HolgateCorner said:
It cost my daughter £300 to get to London by train the other day due to cancelled trains etc because of the strike, she is now having a hell of a job reclaiming it.

She‘s a medical student, she has no spare money other than what I give her.

This is the reality of strikes for ordinary people.

And she votes Labour.
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Thank goodness none of the railway staff have children that they help financially. Then they'd really need a payrise!
 
Laughing said:
You can support workers rights without picketing with them. James obrien made a good point about starmer being unpolitical in as much as he is interested in the process' for improvement rather than the optics. Standing on a picket line does nothing for the rmt's problems. Starmer is more interested in how you fix the problem.
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Having stood on picket lines all over the North East, I can tell you that having supportive MP's and Councillors and other Trade Unionists standing with you, might not directly help, but it doesn't half help morale and resolve.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
Having stood on picket lines all over the North East, I can tell you that having supportive MP's and Councillors and other Trade Unionists standing with you, might not directly help, but it doesn't half help morale and resolve.
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At what cost to the labour party though. They need to be seen as a government in waiting not a protest party. An extension to this would be at what cost to working families and the uk as a whole? If the tories get in again the country is well and truly ****ed. I can forgive starmer for anything that increases the chances of getting the tories out.

You need to bare in mind that 500k people will decide the next election. They are over 50,white and upper working class.
 
Laughing said:
You need to bare in mind that 500k people will decide the next election. They are over 50,white and upper working class.
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This relies on the idea that everybody else has nowhere else to go. An idea that has been shown up as false by Scotland since 2015 and the 'red wall' in 2019.

Starmer may well win over some of the over 50s tories he's aiming for. But he can't take Labour's base for granted. How many examples will it take for Labour to learn this?
 
Only a month ago I think 5 other labour MP's joined the picket line and Starmer gave them a warning, which should have been a warning to everyone else, but then last week Starmer again specifically said don't join the picket line. Tarry then does it anyway, and goes one better and gives interviews and then starts talking about what Starmer wants, it's too reckless and disjointed. To be fair to Tarry in the interview though, it did sound like he expected to be sacked for going on the picket line alone, so getting sacked for that wouldn't have surprised me, never mind doing the interview as well.

It at least shows that Labour MP's are behind the workers and willing to sacrifice themselves for that, but also shows that Starmer won't take any insubordination, and wants everyone to pull in the same direction, but in the correct way. I don't think it's as bad for Labour as some on here are making out.

Supporting public sector workers is one thing (and very, very much the right thing), which Labour will always do more than the Tories, but joining the picket line is completely another, and was totally unnecessary. Just let them strike/ picket, and go after the Tories for the reasons they're doing it, and release interviews about it though official channels. All this does is cause the party problems, and the party need to be pulling in the same direction.

If Labour can get into power they can do whatever they like for public sector workers, and the workers will get better results from that, and the public less disruption from that.

Is anybody in any sector getting a pay rise which is keeping up with this level of inflation, when the country is verging on recession?
 
SuperStu said:
This relies on the idea that everybody else has nowhere else to go. An idea that has been shown up as false by Scotland since 2015 and the 'red wall' in 2019.

Starmer may well win over some of the over 50s tories he's aiming for. But he can't take Labour's base for granted. How many examples will it take for Labour to learn this?
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Starmer has targeted polling he will know exactly the situation. All his actions are aimed at one thing ridding the country of the tory leeches.
 
SuperStu said:
Thank goodness none of the railway staff have children that they help financially. Then they'd really need a payrise!
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The point is Superstu is that striking isn’t a game, it affects a lot of people badly and being gung ho about disrupting society may give you a feel good ‘power to the people’ buzz but millions out there will just see it as causing more problems than there already are. And that will cost Labour votes and simply give us and the unions 5 years of more right wing Tory damage whilst the Labour Party is dragged down by petty internal arguments. Half of the strikers will be Tories but they will still get their type of government back in.
 
Laughing said:
I am not worried about your vote bbg. We are discussing, it's interesting.
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You may not be, but plenty are. I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts explaining that non-Labour voters are saboteurs, secret Tories or traitors, or that we must hold our noses and vote Labour as the least worst option or be blamed for another five years of Conservative rule. If Starmer is still playing a blinder, knows what he's doing and has it all under control then everyone can relax.
 
HolgateCorner said:
The point is Superstu is that striking isn’t a game, it affects a lot of people badly and being gung ho about disrupting society may give you a feel good ‘power to the people’ buzz but millions out there will just see it as causing more problems than there already are. And that will cost Labour votes and simply give us and the unions 5 years of more right wing Tory damage whilst the Labour Party is dragged down by petty internal arguments. Half of the strikers will be Tories but they will still get their type of government back in.
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Who's saying striking is a game like? Nobody wants to go on strike. It's miserable. You lose pay, if you're part of a picket line you end up going in earlier than you usually would, you get nothing but grief off selfish *rseholes... Striking only ever happens as a last resort, where there's been a breakdown between management and staff - and it's not like it ever makes that relationship more convivial.

No the point is that there's a cost of living crisis. People need wage increases.
 
SuperStu said:
Who's saying striking is a game like? Nobody wants to go on strike. It's miserable. You lose pay, if you're part of a picket line you end up going in earlier than you usually would, you get nothing but grief off selfish *rseholes... Striking only ever happens as a last resort, where there's been a breakdown between management and staff - and it's not like it ever makes that relationship more convivial.

No the point is that there's a cost of living crisis. People need wage increases.
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Glad you agree it’s not a game, because it most certainly isn’t with this bunch of Tories in power for 12 years and counting.

If people want to strike then that is their choice.

The Labour Party have to be careful because like it or not it can be very politically damaging to jump on board with it and despite all the ideologist noise and posturing in the posts above we need to get them out.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
You may not be, but plenty are. I've lost count of the number of times I've read posts explaining that non-Labour voters are saboteurs, secret Tories or traitors, or that we must hold our noses and vote Labour as the least worst option or be blamed for another five years of Conservative rule. If Starmer is still playing a blinder, knows what he's doing and has it all under control then everyone can relax.
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The truth lies between those extremes. I am not starmers biggest fan but I suspect he is the right choice at the right time.

I wouldn't critisize anyone's vote. I may point out the reality of that vote, as I see it.

In a Labour stronghold, a protest vote probably won't make much difference.

Hell I voted brexit and now have to live with the consequences. For clarity I never voted for the tories in 2019 and never have.
 
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