Boro, please 'take the knee' next season

Pembroke said:
I answed a question how is an anti racism message political,

Are you stating that taking the knee from its outset was free of any politics? The FA made repeated statements distancing itself from politics. That indicates a problem with the message. The gesture, the act was seen as political.

In regards to depth of feeling the anti racism sentiment in football is paper thin. Mr Southgate gets himself into a Gordian knot. His players and his benefit from gaining wealth from unprincipled individuals, business, organisations and states. Their anti racism has terms and conditions that ignores the soiled and some times bloodstained hands that help them accrue wealth.

Not one player makes reference to Nikes dodgy racist working practices in the third world, the performative politics staunchly ignores the racist and murderous treatment of African migrant workers and on this goes. Football is balls deep in brazen non anti racist hypocrisy and doing well out of it.
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Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything.
Others take a different view (thankfully IMO).
And yes, I'm a hypocrit too but happy to stand as an anti racist when I want to.
 
1finny said:
Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything.
Others take a different view (thankfully IMO).
And yes, I'm a hypocrit too but happy to stand as an anti racist when I want to.
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I don't think that's his position to be fair. @Pembroke is a flat out, good old fashioned racist. And he wants inequality so he will attack an attempt to promote decency and equality. He's just that type of person.
 
Randy said:
Harsher action is needed.
Full stadium closures, countries disqualified from tournaments, friendly games cancelled, much much higher fines, club European places reduced or stopped all together.
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This!

This is how you apply pressure to racists - It's up to UEFA/FIFA to make sure that they take action and stop loopholes in the "punishment" imposed for RACISM - It's unbelievable that there was a crowd there in the first place.
 
1finny said:
Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything.
Others take a different view (thankfully IMO).
And yes, I'm a hypocrit too but happy to stand as an anti racist when I want to.
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So not all the time? I deliberately took that out of context to empathise a point. Football is taking that stance.

What is taking the knee trying to change here? Who are the players telling to pack the racism in? We live in a society were nobody is promoting racism beyond a minscule number of extremist odd balls. The UK is a tolerant nation, our reaction to racism as a society is one of NOT tolerating racism. We KNOW as a nation racism is wrong.

Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything. Is it, or do I feel that this anti racism is paper thin, the commitment extends only as far as there is no risk to income.

Surely anti racism should target capital? Racist business and practice? Racist owners? Racist states? And here the anti racism and anti racists pull down their heads because it threatens lucrative income. True anti racism would be pointing out the feathering of nests across footbal from countless morally bankrupt sources, that would be an attempt at change.

Earning money for and promoting the Nikes etc, playing for racist owners, playing for and in racist states is upholding a staus quo.
 
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Pembroke said:
So not all the time? I deliberately took that out of context to empathise a point. Football is taking that stance.

What is taking the knee trying to change here? Who are the players telling to pack the racism in? We live in a society were nobody is promoting racism beyond a minscule number of extremist odd balls. The UK is a tolerant nation, our reaction to racism as a society is one of NOT tolerating racism. We KNOW as a nation racism is wrong.

Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything. Is it, or do I feel that this anti racism is paper thin, the commitment extends only as far as there is no risk to income.

Surely anti racism should target capital? Racist business and practice? Racist owners? Racist states? And here the anti racism and anti racists pull down their heads because it threatens lucrative income. True anti racism would be pointing out the feathering of nests across footbal from countless morally bankrupt sources, that would be an attempt at change.

Earning money for and promoting the Nikes etc, playing for racist owners, playing for and in racist states is upholding a staus quo.
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Maybe you should try chatting to anti racists to understand what they do before deciding their actions are paper thin.
It takes guts to confront the racists in pubs, shops football matches et al.

Yes, more could be done on the macro scale but, if enough of us change - the world changes.

We could start with Qatar and, instead of blaming players for going, just boycott watching it.
I won’t be watching a game and I know others who are doing the same.
Others will have the philosophical discussion on bigotry and happily tune in.
 
Pembroke said:
So not all the time? I deliberately took that out of context to empathise a point. Football is taking that stance.

What is taking the knee trying to change here? Who are the players telling to pack the racism in? We live in a society were nobody is promoting racism beyond a minscule number of extremist odd balls. The UK is a tolerant nation, our reaction to racism as a society is one of NOT tolerating racism. We KNOW as a nation racism is wrong.

Your position seems to be - if you can't change everything, don't try and change anything. Is it, or do I feel that this anti racism is paper thin, the commitment extends only as far as there is no risk to income.

Surely anti racism should target capital? Racist business and practice? Racist owners? Racist states? And here the anti racism and anti racists pull down their heads because it threatens lucrative income. True anti racism would be pointing out the feathering of nests across footbal from countless morally bankrupt sources, that would be an attempt at change.

Earning money for and promoting the Nikes etc, playing for racist owners, playing for and in racist states is upholding a staus quo.
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IMHO you do make some good points re hypocrisy and inconsistency.

Players should not feel compelled to take stands, but they should be entitled to take them and be respected for their position.
Others who do not feel as strongly should be under no obligation to join in.
Everyone watching should have the right to their opinion, but peaceful gestures should be either applauded or ignored when made.

Racism is wrong, it is waning and will thankfully continue on this path.
Footballers taking the knee noise is in danger of becoming counter-productive.
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
This!

This is how you apply pressure to racists - It's up to UEFA/FIFA to make sure that they take action and stop loopholes in the "punishment" imposed for RACISM - It's unbelievable that there was a crowd there in the first place.
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How can UEFA or FIFA even attempt to uphold anything when they have been proven to be corrupt and associated with questionable organisations?
 
1finny said:
Maybe you should try chatting to anti racists to understand what they do before deciding their actions are paper thin.
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Which anti racists are you referring to? The political ones who feel you have to affirm to an ideology to be truly anti racist? Football players? Or anti racist people who treat people with respect and judge people by the character?

The third is a loaded question. Political anti racism intersectionalists do not view the latter as being anti racist.

There is a degree of madness here. Are you pro racist? Its that silly. Everybody (except a % of a % of odd balls) is anti racist. Seriously. We as a nation are.

1finny said:
It takes guts to confront the racists in pubs, shops football matches et al.
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Kneeling doesnt confront much at all.

Players refusing to play at a tournament where stadiums were built by slaves would be principled. Anti racism should be principled v going off shift at a World cup.

1finny said:
Yes, more could be done on the macro scale but, if enough of us change - the world changes.
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The players have opportunity on their micro scales to create an affect. Players not endorsing boot supplers who use child and forced labour is a change. This of course would have financial implications for players income, but anti racism cannot be a monetary concern.

1finny said:
We could start with Qatar and, instead of blaming players for going, just boycott watching it.
I won’t be watching a game and I know others who are doing the same.
Others will have the philosophical discussion on bigotry and happily tune in.
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We refers to you me of course but, We could start with ... There is that timescale again. Fundamentally that should be the people attending. The player’s attendance is approval. The player’s are going to party knowingly held by a homophobic, misogynistic, homophobic, repressive, illiberal state that has used African and Asian workers as slaves. We could call that latter systemic racism.

Yes you can loook at those turning a blind eye critically. I dont think you have to be philosophical there.

I won't be watching it either.
 
1finny said:
Maybe you should try chatting to anti racists to understand what they do before deciding their actions are paper thin.
It takes guts to confront the racists in pubs, shops football matches et al.

Yes, more could be done on the macro scale but, if enough of us change - the world changes.

We could start with Qatar and, instead of blaming players for going, just boycott watching it.
I won’t be watching a game and I know others who are doing the same.
Others will have the philosophical discussion on bigotry and happily tune in.
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I wont be watching it either finny

A small football forum in the north east of the UK start a boycott refusing to watch the world cup & it grows & grows, wont happen mind
 
You can count me in. I worked in Qatar during the building of the new airport. Lasted 6 weeks of a 2 year contract. Shocking to see, the working & living conditions of the immigrant workers. Back then, it was mostly Bangladeshi, Philipino workers. I still have contacts who still work in that hell hole, and now its the Africans that are taken advantage off. Apparently, they tolerate the heat better and not so much lost time during Ramadan. Shocking
 
Karmacop said:
You can count me in. I worked in Qatar during the building of the new airport. Lasted 6 weeks of a 2 year contract. Shocking to see, the working & living conditions of the immigrant workers. Back then, it was mostly Bangladeshi, Philipino workers. I still have contacts who still work in that hell hole, and now its the Africans that are taken advantage off. Apparently, they tolerate the heat better and not so much lost time during Ramadan. Shocking
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Shocking indeed
 
Pembroke said:
Everybody (except a % of a % of odd balls) is anti racist. Seriously. We as a nation are.
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I think we saw last summer, with the abuse received by Saka, Sancho & Rashford for missing penalties, that a lot of racism lurks below the surface still in the U.K. Moreover, we have the repellent Democratic Footbal Lads Alliance who specifically piggyback on the game to disseminate their message of hatred,

Personally, I started this thread because I am immensely proud of the England team and their leadership on this, just as I was ashamed to be a Boro fan when they were booed at the Riverside last summer )and of course lots of the booers were Boro fans!). I DO think the decision by Boro players not to take the knee was likely coloured by the reception they might begin to receive from a section of the Boro support because the absurd and offensive White Lives Matter discourse is a deliberate culture war backlash designed to keep stirred up the nativist resentments (promienent on Teesside) that were awakened by Brexit, and to continue to place these in the service of right-wing parties, which ultimately means the Tories. As I said, that's why Patel jumped on it and Johnson was only forced belatedly to issue and half-hearted utterance of 'regret' for the booing. That doesn't mean taking the knee equates to support of Labour (though I'd be happy if it did) merely that the 'gesture' remains a silent and abiding corrective to the deployment by malign right-wing forces of this line of argument. Put simply, if working class people can be teased into being into resenting b(still oppressed) black people, they can be diverted from focusing on the people they should be resenting: the rich. It requires challenge because it is far from dying. On the contrary, Hungary and elsewhere shows that huge sections of the working class in countries across the world continue to be energised by these nationalsit/nativist/prejudiced tropes. Those 30,000 Hungarian children will become adults soon, where their ignorance becomes far more of a danger. Hungary is becoming a fascist country under the EU's nose - Russia already is. Who knows what could happen in the U.S, under a revivified Trump. The taking of the knee is 100% political (if not party political) and all the better for it. This is a deadly global contest and the fact that footballers are articulate and willing to use their huge public profile to challenge these dark forces is amazing and uplifting. Modestly, I would love to see the players representing my club step over onto the right side of this very clear line, and lend their support to this ongoing campaign against hate. I'll point to the recent coming out of a Blackpool player as a symbol of the different atmosphere at large in the game, and how we should capitalise on this.
 
SmallTown said:
I don't think that's his position to be fair. @Pembroke is a flat out, good old fashioned racist. And he wants inequality so he will attack an attempt to promote decency and equality. He's just that type of person.
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That seems very harsh and judgemental to be honest. That's not how Pembroke is coming across to me.
 
equaliser said:
I would love to see the players representing my club step over onto the right side of this very clear line, and lend their support to this ongoing campaign against hate.

Boro have never cross to the wrong side of line.

You know why Boro, other teams and individual players have stop taking the knee. When was the last time you heard a commentator or MOTD explain why they are not taking the knee anymore. What the media should be doing more is highlighting the reason why teams and players feel the need to stop taking the knee.
 
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