Ukraine - invasion underway

Muttley said:
I expect it is a simple "invasion" marking remember that a lot of the Ukrainian military hardware is the same kit so you need to be able to identify your own guys.
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Like our UPTURNED V in the gulf ( yes lest said about that the better)
 
Uwefuchs said:
I think a lot of the West are assuming that Putin is a rational and sane man, if this is him trying to write his name in the history books who knows how it ends.
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TBH I think the opposite. People seem to really lean in to the crazy Ivan/Russian bear type stuff. To me it seems barmy to be talking about the idea of Russia invading countries like France or saying Putin will never stop etc.
 
zorro_mfc said:
No it’s not. NATO is not the aim
If it was he’d have took Estonia.
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Where did I say NATO was his aim? Once he has Ukraine, he will move on Moldova at some point in the future I’d guess. After that, if you think Putin is just going to put his feet up and sip vodka in his pipe and slippers I think you are very, very wrong.
 
Putin plainly doesn’t want Ukraine to be more integrated into Europe or become a member state of NATO. He doesn’t want missives close to the Russian border apparently.

Is the elephant in the room the fact that invading and occupying Ukraine brings the border of Russia (their idea of the border, not the rest of the world) closer to European missiles?

It’s crazy.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
I don't agree with that, either Russia's intent with regards to Poland or Russia's diplomacy.

He may, like Johnson and Trump, be against the style of democracy dominant in Europe, but he knows that he can't beat NATO, and while China may not be condemning the move today their relationship still needs nurturing by Russia.
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I think you have misinterpreted my point. I am not suggesting he is immediately going to march on through Poland. The point was that he is immediately on more of Nato’s doorstep there is no buffer zones and we will need to permanently beef up the borders. He is a despot and he will play games with carrying out military exercises right on Nato’s doorstep testing nerve and resolve.
 
WeeGord said:
Putin plainly doesn’t want Ukraine to be more integrated into Europe or become a member state of NATO. He doesn’t want missives close to the Russian border apparently.
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It's a stupid thought process - the USA and UK have basically said they can reach Russia from anywhere in the world - we have nuclear submarines FFS.. we don't exactly need to be near Russia
 
DrummerMan said:
Bloody hell, it's not like they've just filmed them at Pinewood Studios - basically the whole world has mobile phones
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Yeah I don't know how people expect them to be verified??? You'd think the screams of a family running away from a house they've just seen a jet with their own eyes firing on them would be verification enough.
 
coluka said:
I think you have misinterpreted my point. I am not suggesting he is immediately going to march on through Poland. The point was that he is immediately on more of Nato’s doorstep there is no buffer zones and we will need to permanently beef up the borders. He is a despot and he will play games with carrying out military exercises right on Nato’s doorstep testing nerve and resolve.
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They're already on NATO's doorstep. St.Petersburg can't be much further away than Kiev. They share a border with the three Baltic states, and have access to the Baltic Sea themselves.
 
DrummerMan said:
It's a stupid thought process - the USA and UK have basically said they can reach Russia from anywhere in the world - we have nuclear submarines FFS.. we don't exactly need to be near Russia
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True, but if you launched missiles from Ukraine they would hit their target a lot sooner, less time to react than if they were launched from further afield.
 
BBC: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says that Russia will always be ready for dialogue despite Russian forces launching a major military assault on Ukraine.

"Unfortunately, our Western friends do not respect international law, trying to destroy it and promote what they call 'rules-based order,'" Lavrov says, state-owned news agency RIA Novosti reports.

"We had intensive and detailed discussions with our American colleagues, with other Nato members," he says.

We hope that there is still a chance to return to international law and international obligations."

Lavrov says that Russia will "always be ready for a dialogue that will return us to justice and the principles of the UN charter".


Already looking for a way out
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
They're already on NATO's doorstep. St.Petersburg can't be much further away than Kiev. They share a border with the three Baltic states, and have access to the Baltic Sea themselves.
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I know that, thats why I said more of Nato’s doorstep. It means more beefing up of Nato’s resources across a much wider border and therefore increased spending by Nato countries. Some of which were accused not long ago of not paying their way. Trump was threatening to pull out of it, imagine if he had done so. Economically it is going to mean more spending on defence budgets, increased taxation possibly to pay for it in some areas. As the world moves away from fossil fuel Russia will ultimately be badly affected as things stand. Putin may have more up his sleeve than we currently think.
 
DrummerMan said:
BBC: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says that Russia will always be ready for dialogue despite Russian forces launching a major military assault on Ukraine.

"Unfortunately, our Western friends do not respect international law, trying to destroy it and promote what they call 'rules-based order,'" Lavrov says, state-owned news agency RIA Novosti reports.

"We had intensive and detailed discussions with our American colleagues, with other Nato members," he says.

We hope that there is still a chance to return to international law and international obligations."

Lavrov says that Russia will "always be ready for a dialogue that will return us to justice and the principles of the UN charter".


Already looking for a way out
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A bit late for that!
 
DrummerMan said:
BBC: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says that Russia will always be ready for dialogue despite Russian forces launching a major military assault on Ukraine.

"Unfortunately, our Western friends do not respect international law, trying to destroy it and promote what they call 'rules-based order,'" Lavrov says, state-owned news agency RIA Novosti reports.

"We had intensive and detailed discussions with our American colleagues, with other Nato members," he says.

We hope that there is still a chance to return to international law and international obligations."

Lavrov says that Russia will "always be ready for a dialogue that will return us to justice and the principles of the UN charter".


Already looking for a way out
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Obviously broadcasted to the Russian people and not the free World.
 
coluka said:
I know that, thats why I said more of Nato’s doorstep. It means more beefing up of Nato’s resources across a much wider border and therefore increased spending by Nato countries. Some of which were accused not long ago of not paying their way. Trump was threatening to pull out of it, imagine if he had done so. Economically it is going to mean more spending on defence budgets, increased taxation possibly to pay for it in some areas. As the world moves away from fossil fuel Russia will ultimately be badly affected as things stand. Putin may have more up his sleeve than we currently think.
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I'm sure he has, he's sweet with China at present, he'll be looking for an alternative market for Russia's natural resources. The Chinese will be looking on with interest, with an eye on Taiwan.

Geographically Russia has depended on the Black Sea for trade, it's trying to protect that and has had a war close to it since 2014, 14,000 dead. Not exactly reassuring to trade.
 
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