Next Derby owners face extra £1m legal bill as Middlesbrough and Wycombe compensation claims head for ugly court battle

Gibson hates the football authorities. Before the 3 points debacle there was the insistence that creditors were paid in full after liquidation in 1986. There's no doubt the authorities have tried to make an example of us on several occasions whilst letting others off the hook and I think the whole Derby thing is more an attempt to highlight the EFL's failure to enforce it's own rules.
I'm fine with it but I hope that we're absolutely squeaky clean 'cos we ain't gonna win a lot of friends.
 
I really hope that our money men and people in suits keep a tight ship financially. God help us if we ever fall under FFP😂

We must be close. We have big wages and have far more transfer activity than most. Throw in no big sales since Traore and Bamford (that money has easily been spent).

I'm sure Gibbo is 'all over it'. We'd look pretty daft if we make an error.
 
S7DiscoDown said:
I really hope that our money men and people in suits keep a tight ship financially. God help us if we ever fall under FFP😂

We must be close. We have big wages and have far more transfer activity than most. Throw in no big sales since Traore and Bamford (that money has easily been spent).

I'm sure Gibbo is 'all over it'. We'd look pretty daft if we make an error.
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All clubs are close, that's the way it works, with many beyond that for long periods, followed by a season of cost-cutting to bring them back in line.

In some cases clubs knowingly go beyond their limits, hence the punishments, but in Derby's case that transgression took place over a period of time and was carried out in ways that was unique to them.

I don't gain any pleasure from our civil action against Derby; I do feel for their fans (because after all they are the only constant at any club), but if there is to be any proper justice then that always has to address the impact on the victims. In this case that is Boro and Wycome.

Given that we obviously can't be awarded a place in the play-offs that Derby took at our expense, just in the same way that Wycombe can't be restored to the Championship, suing is the only recourse available to both clubs.

Both Boro and Wycombe have materially been placed at a significant disadvantage by Derby breaking the rules, which they knowingly did in order to gain an unfair advantage against their rivals, and it's right that it is redressed.
 
chickenrunner said:
I think the whole Derby thing is more an attempt to highlight the EFL's failure to enforce it's own rules.
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This really. I think there's an argument that without Gibson beating the drum and creating the noise/publicity around the whole debacle that it could have been quietly swept under the carpet with Derby effectively getting away with it.

I appreciate those who feel uncomfortable about being seen to 'kick them whilst they are down' but Gibson's comments and actions started before the full extent of Derby's woes came to light so I don't see it like that.

In any event, I don't feel too much sympathy for those who try to cheat the system. Gibson is standing up for what he believes is right, I agree with him about this but I'm not so sure the 45m he's after is necessarily the right figure. I assume he's got to this figure by dividing the supposed promotion through the play off spoils (e.g 180m game) by 4, but I'm not sure that logic will hold in court. I suspect we could get something though but probably just the difference in prize money between finishing 6 and 7, so not enough to offset the legal costs!
 
Nothing Mel Morris did was in secret. The dodgy player amortisations, the fraudulent stadium valuation, the merry-go-round of shell companies used to buy the stadium, the third-party payment of Rooney's wages: all these things were matters of public record.

The people who are crying about being his victims now are the same people who knew what he was up to but were happily cheering him on when they thought he could cheat them into the PL, and were attacking anyone who dared to point out how this was all going to end. "Mel Morris has the EFL on strings".

I find it very hard to have sympathy with anyone at DCFC. Morris may be gone, but that doesn't absolve the rest of them.

BTW, they never actually got punished for the stadium nonsense. Given their stadium is effectively just a copy of ours, Gibson could really rub it in by revaluing the Riverside at £80m.
 
newyddion said:
£45m would do the trick. It wasn’t the EFL that cheated. What would we be going after them for exactly?
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First and foremost I want to make it clear that I have no love for Derby County and their ex-chairman Mel Morriss, the latter being everything you hate about professional football. I understand Derby cheated and in my eyes have only received a slap on the wrist with the 12 points deduction they received, of which three are suspended.

The whole of the Championship community knew what was going on at Derby and so did the people who sit at the top of the EFL. These people are not interested in fair play, they want the world to believe their league is exciting and are willing to turn a blind eye for this to happen. You only have to look at the teams who have previously broken the FFP rules to see that and the lack of punishment they have received. Will the Boro go after Villa, they beat Derby in the final.

The governing body of the EFL needs shaking up and the way the FFP rules are applied needs looking at. For me, any team in breach of these rules should be automatically relegated to the division below. At present we are allowing teams to claim sanctuary of the Premier League and the rules that apply to a Championship club cannot be enforced on any team reaching the 'church door.' All this needs to change with both the EFL and the Premier League working in unison to prevent it.

I personally don't think our claim against Derby will change the thinking of the EFL, they knew what was going on that season and did nothing to prevent it. Even when they issued the points deduction they allowed it to be suspended, knowing this would keep Derby in the division at the expense of Wycombe Wanderers. It is the EFL we should be going after.
 
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clay said:
Nothing Mel Morris did was in secret. The dodgy player amortisations, the fraudulent stadium valuation, the merry-go-round of shell companies used to buy the stadium, the third-party payment of Rooney's wages: all these things were matters of public record.

The people who are crying about being his victims now are the same people who knew what he was up to but were happily cheering him on when they thought he could cheat them into the PL, and were attacking anyone who dared to point out how this was all going to end. "Mel Morris has the EFL on strings".

I find it very hard to have sympathy with anyone at DCFC. Morris may be gone, but that doesn't absolve the rest of them.

BTW, they never actually got punished for the stadium nonsense. Given their stadium is effectively just a copy of ours, Gibson could really rub it in by revaluing the Riverside at £80m.
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What annoys me about the stadium was their defence was that valuation was based on them adding a roof and having concerts at the stadium during the season. Clearly no work to add a roof has ever been done or was ever likely to be done.

So does that mean in theory we could draw up plans for a remolding then sell the stadium? The plans include an extra 50,000 seats, an addition to the facilities like the Spurs stadium, a roof and running track so now the stadium is worth say £300m as there is the potential to host NFL, MLB and the World Athletic Championship plus indoor concerts every week?
 
Jan_Aage_Fjortoft said:
So does that mean in theory we could draw up plans for a remolding then sell the stadium? The plans include an extra 50,000 seats, an addition to the facilities like the Spurs stadium, a roof and running track so now the stadium is worth say £300m as there is the potential to host NFL, MLB and the World Athletic Championship plus indoor concerts every week?
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The EFL have closed the loophole to sell your stadium to yourself and lease it back. It was a grey area when Villa, Shef Wed and Derby did it I believe, now ruled out.

I suppose Gibbo could sell it to Bulbul for a fortune and build another one!

You would think (although it would probably be suicide) ourselves and Wycombe should be taking the EFL to court or something akin to a motion of no confidence in their hierarchy? Possibly along with pursuing a case against Derby.

For failing to adequately police FFP, act in a timely manner, issue fixed punishments within the season the transgressions occurred, properly assessing owners and accounts as fit and proper etc.

How were Derby the only professional club in the country to summit accounts with player amortisations calculated differently? Why weren't they immediately told to fook off and do them like everyone else?

It seems pretty obvious they wouldn't do them differently to look worse for FFP........

🤷‍♂️
 
Jan_Aage_Fjortoft said:
What annoys me about the stadium was their defence was that valuation was based on them adding a roof and having concerts at the stadium during the season. Clearly no work to add a roof has ever been done or was ever likely to be done.
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Buy a run-down house for £200k, think about fixing it up to a high standard and adding an extension, then sell it to Mel Morris for £400k without actually doing any work. That's how property deals work, right Mel?
 
Caesium137 said:
How were Derby the only professional club in the country to summit accounts with player amortisations calculated differently? Why weren't they immediately told to fook off and do them like everyone else?
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There's a broader problem about how utterly worthless an audit is right now. You just pay the auditor to say what you want them to say, and everyone knows full well that if they don't give you what you want then you take your business elsewhere. It's not just a football problem: big collapses like Carillion and Patisserie Valerie came after dodgy accounting practices were given a big tick by an "independent" auditor.

No auditor with the faintest concept of ethical behaviour would have signed off those amortisations. The auditor who did sign off Derby's accounts should have been struck off by now. Instead, he's still a partner at the same firm.
 
Boro4life said:
Didn't Derby not lose to villa in playoff final who also broke FFP
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But they are in the magical mythical land beyond the law! I'm pretty sure Derby will have cheated that season too.

In all seriousness though, I do think the punishment for cheating and getting promoted should be automatic demotion to League two on next relegation, no ifs, buts, maybes or appeals.

Just make it a rule so everyone is clear and knows the score.

If clubs want to risk it and think they'll never come down then fair enough, have a go. But if you do get relegated, down you go and an extra team from League 2 and League 1 move up.

I also think the parachute payment system needs looking at, like it can only be used for current salaries in the club, not a load more signings and player wages to muscle your way back up. But seems as the EFL can't police the current financial rules, we've probably got no chance of them administering that.
 
It should not be down to a chairman or club exec to enforce the rules of the league. Points deductions 12/24 months after the fact does not protect the competition in the years that club benefited from there action. If the EFL and FA had any guts to punish a club appropriately and early in these matters it would set a precedent and Gibson would not have the avenues to do this.

By drawing this out while Derby are trying to find a buyer it will bring the commercial viability of the club into question. That’s the bit that is just not fair. I hope that this is not the motivation and I don’t think it is. I think this is an unfortunate timing of legal preceding, point deductions and the collapse of Derby’s ownership all at once.

Derby should have been relegated and Wycombe stay up. It is easier to justify that than our case. But with this shadow hanging over the club it could go into liquidation which is never an appropriate punishment. You have to feel for Derby fans who must feel sick at the minute. I hope they get through this, drop down a division and get the owners they deserve.
 
breakthewallsdown said:
Article Here

"Steve Gibson’s Boro want around £45m and Wycombe £6m for lost revenue that they claim Derby cost them by breaking FFP rules."

Not going to lie, I don't like this by Gibbo.
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They broke the rules .....and gained a potentially huge financial advantage over us....thats life...they got caught nowbthey must pay....
Cheating ain't the way forward and I'm glad gibbo is holding them to account
 
I would prefer to see Gibson launch a £45m compension claim against the man, Mel Morris, rather than the current Derby administration.

Surely, it can proven, that he was in charge of ALL the companies named in the dodgy dealings, regarding ground sale etc.

Why should the Derby fans pay for being wooed by a shyster.

Morris should be declared unfit the run any UK companies.
 
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