Fuel shortage

BoroMart said:
it's not backed up by the people that walked away, that's just your spin on it.

This isn't entirely a brexit issue, but brexit is a significant factor, that shouldn't be debatable when the government has actually decided the best response to this issue is to make it easier for EU citizens to work in this industry again.
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It's not my interpretation bm it's drivers iterpretation.

Johnson has agreed to except hgv drivers from visa requirements because it looks like he is doing something. I wouldn't quote Johnson or this inept government in brexit debate bm.
 
Laughing said:
My thoughts are that there are many reasons for driver shortages and leaving the EU has played a very small part in the overall shortage. This is backed up by drivers who left the industry. The actual people who walked away. Their main issues were ir35 and poor working conditions.
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So the actual people that run haulage companies and employ the drivers, the ones that have to physically get them to drive..... they're lying.
What a tool.
 
BoroMart said:
it's not backed up by the people that walked away, that's just your spin on it.

This isn't entirely a brexit issue, but brexit is a significant factor, that shouldn't be debatable when the government has actually decided the best response to this issue is to make it easier for EU citizens to work in this industry again.
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So that's what 'Leave to Remain' means
 
Laughing said:
It's not my interpretation bm it's drivers iterpretation.
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it your interpretation of a subset of drivers

Laughing said:
Johnson has agreed to except hgv drivers from visa requirements because it looks like he is doing something. I wouldn't quote Johnson or this inept government in brexit debate bm.
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when crisis happens they have to do something that works, The government in brexit make the wrong choice repeatedly, then have to reverse to fix the issues. This is just one of those reverses.
 
BoroMart said:
it's not backed up by the people that walked away, that's just your spin on it.

This isn't entirely a brexit issue, but brexit is a significant factor, that shouldn't be debatable when the government has actually decided the best response to this issue is to make it easier for EU citizens to work in this industry again.
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One final thing on this bm I have no issue with brexit taking some responsability for petrol delivery issues nor food delivery issues but even without brexit we would be where we are today with lorry drivers but just not quite as bad. Leaving the EU has had minimal impact on drivers leaving the industry.
 
BoroMart said:
it's not backed up by the people that walked away, that's just your spin on it.

This isn't entirely a brexit issue, but brexit is a significant factor, that shouldn't be debatable when the government has actually decided the best response to this issue is to make it easier for EU citizens to work in this industry again.
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There is no doubt there is a shortfall of drivers due to EU drivers not filling the jobs, but a lot of British drivers left because of conditions and pay. Successive govts have screwed the transport industry for decades with fuel costs and road taxes. I dealt with lots of tanker drivers in my last job and that's what they told me, Strangely never got many foreign drivers in, this was between 1995 and 2014,. A few had worked for bulkhaul and said Gibbo was a great bloke but the firm wasn't that good to work for.
 
BoroMart said:
it your interpretation of a subset of drivers


when crisis happens they have to do something that works, The government in brexit make the wrong choice repeatedly, then have to reverse to fix the issues. This is just one of those reverses.
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Let's see if it makes a difference I don't think it will because so many left for other reasons.

As for ignoring the voice of drivers who clearly stated why they left the industry.. Are you mad? Shouldn't asking the drivers why they are leaving form part of the solution. To then ignore them doesn't make any sense.

Sick to your narrative by all means but don't expect a solution until the other issues are resolved.
 
Laughing said:
One final thing on this bm I have no issue with brexit taking some responsability for petrol delivery issues nor food delivery issues but even without brexit we would be where we are today with lorry drivers but just not quite as bad. Leaving the EU has had minimal impact on drivers leaving the industry.
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I don't doubt there are other issues at play, wages, working conditions and IR35. But we would have been in this situation 15 years ago if it were not for EU citizens doing these jobs. It's a tough job and also a skilled one, most people in this country that don't have a job don't have the balls to do it.
 
BoroMart said:
I don't doubt there are other issues at play, wages, working conditions and IR35. But we would have been in this situation 15 years ago if it were not for EU citizens doing these jobs. It's a tough job and also a skilled one, most people in this country that don't have a job don't have the balls to do it.
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There's a bit of supposition there bm. Let me put it this way re ir35. If I had to take a 20% pay cut I would also look at other industries too.

I just want to see honest debate not the silly brexit name calling that goes on from some posters who assume everything this government screws up is down to brexit its dishonest and furthermore there are plenty of other brexit **** ups to get upset about without the marginal effect brexit had had on the haulier business.
 
Laughing said:
It's not my interpretation bm it's drivers iterpretation.

Johnson has agreed to except hgv drivers from visa requirements because it looks like he is doing something. I wouldn't quote Johnson or this inept government in brexit debate bm.
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Are you really suggesting that the government have taken this hugely embarrassing and damaging (to the Brexiteer argument) u-turn just so it looks like they are doing something?
Really?
🤦🏻‍♂️
 
FabioPorkpie said:
Are you really suggesting that the government have taken this hugely embarrassing and damaging (to the Brexiteer argument) u-turn just so it looks like they are doing something?
Really?
🤦🏻‍♂️
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Yup and it won't have much of an effect without a pay hike.

Are you actually suggesting that this government puts any thought into any of its policy decisions? Really?
 
Laughing said:
You are right that many drivers don't want to drive into the UK. That is absolutely true bear and had created lots of problems. Given we don't really import petrol or diesel from the EU. I think a significant portion of our crude for petrol production comes from Norway but we still produce our own petrol. The issue isn't supplied of crude but delivering from refineries to the station.
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I think the point they were making was that when drivers moved in and out freely in great numbers, staying was always an option.
 
Yesterday, I heard an interesting interview with a representative of German RHA.
He actually bore out a truth told by UK government (hard to believe, I know) in that they also had a shortage of driver's for many of the same reasons we do citing poor conditions and pay. So how do they resolve the situation to avoid the shambles we have. Easy he said, we contract the work to overseas companies where needs be and have lots of other European companies working in our reliable supply chain.

In short Boris and his easily (mis)led brexiteers have shot the whole country in the foot, cutting of our own noses to spite our faces.

And did we get control of our borders? No, we have to pay the French to do that. And still they come, more than ever before and now we are so desperate, that we have old fat **** actually trying to criminalise them..good Tory work in progress.
 
bear66 said:
I think the point they were making was that when drivers moved in and out freely in great numbers, staying was always an option.
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It was always an option bear with settled status. Lots of drivers went back to their home countries after April when their tax status was updated. This was when the driver shortages kicked in, not January.

If you want to argue about food rotting in fields or the increased cost of food or inflation as a consequence of brexit, they are good arguments. I am not arguing the merits of brexit its appalling. I am arguing against the disingenous posters who are using any problems as a Brexit stick to name call.

I wouldn't even mind so much but dressing their "I told you so glee" up as concern sticks in my craw.
 
Laughing said:
Your level of debate is, at best, disingenuous and at worst, used as an excuse to insult.

Bears graph proved nothing and I exclaimed why on another thread linking to multiple articles that explained what was wrong with the chart. Even one article from an EU driver that left the trade but remained in the uk.

All that information was ignored by you and others because it would take away one reason to name call and we can't have that can we.

See your stupid post blaming brexit for high fuel costs.
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So, hang on, you don't think brexit is to blame for high energy costs either? Yiyre spending so much energy arguing against something when even the government admits driver shortages are due to losing people returning to the EU.

I just don't get it. Its odd behaviour to me the first step to fixing a problem. Is admitting it exists. I can't grasp how you ignore the overwhelming evidence and can't even admit brexit is a problem. Its weird to me
 
SmallTown said:
So, hang on, you don't think brexit is to blame for high energy costs either? Yiyre spending so much energy arguing against something when even the government admits driver shortages are due to losing people returning to the EU.

I just don't get it. Its odd behaviour to me the first step to fixing a problem. Is admitting it exists. I can't grasp how you ignore the overwhelming evidence and can't even admit brexit is a problem. Its weird to me
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How are high energy prices down to our relationship with the EU?

I don't think you are interested in fixing any problem st. I think you enjoy calling people names too much.
 
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