Vaccine Passports

mymatelookslikephilstamp said:
Oh for goodness sake indeed - nerd...

I've never said I was against vaccines but I've never felt the need. As an early 30's healthy male what vaccines would I want to take? The flu shot in my mid 20s? What would be the point in that? Should I be judged for being young fit and healthy and not taking vaccines prior to this point?
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People might judge you for disregarding the expert advice of people who actually have a clue what they're talking about.

I take it you didn't have any of the childhood vaccines then?

How many of your friends or family died of smallpox?
 
Centralscrutinizer said:
Have you had any other vaccinations in your life. MMR, Tetanus, Yellow Fever or others for travel abroad ?
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For the record the main difference between other vaccines and the covid 19 vaccine is that it typically takes around 10yrs from drug development, clinical trials, full FDA approval then marketing.
The Covid 19 vaccines were all rushed through and only all have government emergency use approval apart from pfizer which has just been given full FDA approval but was still rushed through within 18 months or so not 10 yrs, and none of the covid vaccine manufacturers or government will accept any form of liability should something go wrong such as blood clots or heart failure or any other unknown future disorders that we don't know about yet.
The reason why it takes 10yrs for careful clinical trials for drugs is mainly because of what happened about thalidomide scandal and the FDA put in place stringent measures something like that never happened again.
Mymatelookslikephilstamp and anyone else is perfectly within their rights to question the safety of the vaccines.
Incidentally, in the 1918 pandemic they didn't have vaccines back then and virus eventually died out after a few years infecting some 500 million people around the globe and killing around 50 million worldwide.

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Boro Blarney said:
For the record the main difference between other vaccines and the covid 19 vaccine is that it typically takes around 10yrs from drug development, clinical trials, full FDA approval then marketing.
The Covid 19 vaccines were all rushed through and only all have government emergency use approval apart from pfizer which has just been given full FDA approval but was still rushed through within 18 months or so not 10 yrs, and none of the covid vaccine manufacturers or government will accept any form of liability should something go wrong such as blood clots or heart failure or any other unknown future disorders that we don't know about yet.
The reason why it takes 10yrs for careful clinical trials for drugs is mainly because of what happened about thalidomide scandal and the FDA put in place stringent measures something like that never happened again.
Mymatelookslikephilstamp and anyone else is perfectly within their rights to question the safety of the vaccines.
Incidentally, in the 1918 pandemic they didn't have vaccines back then and virus eventually died out after a few years infecting some 500 million people around the globe and killing around 50 million worldwide.

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If you read more widely you'll see that during normal vaccine trials a lot of time is wasted between stages and it doesn't have the impetus that this one did from the necessity of requiring a vaccine ASAP. The scientific community is united and categorical, these vaccines are safe.

This vaccine has passed every single test and trial that any other vaccine would.

Please identify which vaccines have long term side effects.
 
Primus84 said:
You know fine well that a negative test does not mean you're not infected and won't go on to infect others - I've explained this several times to you.
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And neither does vaccination so it seems. (I'm a fully paid up member of the jab club by the way, Pfizer produces)
 
Randy said:
As does a negative test or are they no good anymore? If they aren't then they were good last year and they are no good for traveling purposes.
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How many times do I have to explain the issue with negative tests to you?! They've obviously a good thing, even better combined with vaccinated people but they are NOT perfect.
 
Just catching up on this thread….

It’s another perfect example of data being misunderstood, misinterpreted and misrepresented by anti-vaxxers as well as showing how much those who think they’ve figured it all out are actually the ones that have been completely manipulated and blinded to the reality.
It’s so sad.
These poor ignorant anti-vax/covid-denial types are helping to prolong the pandemic for completely futile and fantastical reasons. I pity them and I feel sorry for the rest of us.
 
Boro Blarney said:
apart from pfizer which has just been given full FDA approval
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I read it was bureaucratic sleight of hand. I may be wrong, but I believe the linked letter below from the FDA gives BioNTech full approval, but not yet Pfizer. The statement in the second link was cleverly phrased in such a way as to imply the Pfizer vaccine was approved but doesn't actually say it explicitly. It says the vaccine will be called "Comirnaty" and if you follow the link you'll find it's the branding of BioNTech - not Pfizer.

I can't verify the following, but my understanding is that you can't obtain the BioNTech vaccine in the USA (only Pfizer), so the FDA was able to approve something no one there can actually obtain. Perhaps this is because full approval also means BioNTech is now liable for adverse effects and no longer has legal immunity.

As I understand it, Pfizers approval will be granted subject to the satisfactory completion of longer term tests (they got a separate letter than I can't be bothered to locate). And Pfizer still retains legal immunity. Could all be horsesh*t of course. Neither was fully approved for under 16's without further trials.

The timing is interesting. Approval appears to have been granted just in time to impose vaccine mandates at the start of the school year.


www.fda.gov

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines

Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov
 
FabioPorkpie said:
These poor ignorant anti-vax/covid-denial types are helping to prolong the pandemic for completely futile and fantastical reasons. I pity them and I feel sorry for the rest of us.
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I would respectfully disagree. The more people who get Covid-19 and gain natural immunity the sooner this will all be over. If you're under 40, it's typically not so bad. There are a few unfortunate people with co-morbidities, but hopefully they've had the vaccines (if they've any sense). [See the NHS weekly death stats by age - 763 deaths under 40 out of 132,000 and most of those had co-morbidities]. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Sadly the vaccines do not provide 100% immunity and the immunity wanes over time (5 to 6 months) - they do prevent severe disease however. Even Pfizer admits they won't stop the pandemic. If we took the vaccines twice a year we'd still be in pandemic mode in a decade.

So either you get boosters every 6 months or so (I think Israel is doing it at 5 months and only for over 50's), or eventually you catch Covid-19. But if you're vaccinated you should have less severe disease. My double vaccinated friends who have had Covid (6 so far) have had mild disease or not even noticed - they test positive but without symptoms. (Mind you so have my unvaccinated friends - lucky so far I guess). And if you catch the disease and recover, your natural immunity is significantly better than having the vaccine and from what I read should protect against all but the worst variants.

So don't knock the unvaccinated. They're doing you a favour by taking additional risk, and enough people have had the vaccines that the NHS should be ok. I don't imagine it will take too long. The UK has 30,000+ cases a day and is one of the most vaccinated countries on the planet.
 
Everyone has had the opportunity to decide by now if they want the vaccine or not. The discussion is over. There should just be a law that if you get Covid and have refused a vaccine (without medical exemption) you should be barred from receiving treatment for Covid on the NHS.

Anti-vaxers can then put their money where their mouth is.
 
br14 said:
I would respectfully disagree. The more people who get Covid-19 and gain natural immunity the sooner this will all be over. If you're under 40, it's typically not so bad. There are a few unfortunate people with co-morbidities, but hopefully they've had the vaccines (if they've any sense). [See the NHS weekly death stats by age - 763 deaths under 40 out of 132,000 and most of those had co-morbidities]. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Sadly the vaccines do not provide 100% immunity and the immunity wanes over time (5 to 6 months) - they do prevent severe disease however. Even Pfizer admits they won't stop the pandemic. If we took the vaccines twice a year we'd still be in pandemic mode in a decade.

So either you get boosters every 6 months or so (I think Israel is doing it at 5 months and only for over 50's), or eventually you catch Covid-19. But if you're vaccinated you should have less severe disease. My double vaccinated friends who have had Covid (6 so far) have had mild disease or not even noticed - they test positive but without symptoms. (Mind you so have my unvaccinated friends - lucky so far I guess). And if you catch the disease and recover, your natural immunity is significantly better than having the vaccine and from what I read should protect against all but the worst variants.

So don't knock the unvaccinated. They're doing you a favour by taking additional risk, and enough people have had the vaccines that the NHS should be ok. I don't imagine it will take too long. The UK has 30,000+ cases a day and is one of the most vaccinated countries on the planet.
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I’m afraid plenty that you’ve written there just reinforces my initial post.
Anyway, stay safe.
 
mymatelookslikephilstamp said:
Oh for goodness sake indeed - nerd...

I've never said I was against vaccines but I've never felt the need. As an early 30's healthy male what vaccines would I want to take? The flu shot in my mid 20s? What would be the point in that? Should I be judged for being young fit and healthy and not taking vaccines prior to this point?

Read my multiple comments previously as to why I am sceptical / anxious about this vaccine.. I shouldn't have to regurgitate myself every second post so you can try and trip me up on a technical wording,
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You SHOULD be judges for still failing to understand/ignoring the fact that the vaccine lessens your chance of catching AND lessens your chance of spreading the virus.

I know this will fall on deaf ears but I'm going to repeat it because it's the absolute salient point. It's better for society if you take the vaccine. You can't get upset with people for suggesting you are selfish if you say you are doing what is, ultimately, a selfish act.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Everyone has had the opportunity to decide by now if they want the vaccine or not. The discussion is over. There should just be a law that if you get Covid and have refused a vaccine (without medical exemption) you should be barred from receiving treatment for Covid on the NHS.

Anti-vaxers can then put their money where their mouth is.
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Why stop there? Surely obese people should be refused treatment for heart disease, smokers for lung cancer etc.
Can they all have the tax they have paid returned then?? They’ll be able to afford to go private then
 
magic said:
Why stop there? Surely obese people should be refused treatment for heart disease, smokers for lung cancer etc.
Can they all have the tax they have paid returned then?? They’ll be able to afford to go private then
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There is no vaccine that prevents you getting obese or that stops you starting smoking. But you don't die from being fat or from smoking, it's the related conditions that come of being fat etc - the cancers / high blood pressure etc. Covid is different - you can catch it and die specifically from it.

This is a preventative measure offered to everyone to stop you becoming seriously ill. Don't take it? Take your chances, but not at the expense of others who might need that NHS capacity for their operations / diagnosis.

It's funny that these anti-vaxers don't want the NHS's help prior to getting Covid but want the safety net of it if they do get it.

mens_t_shirt_-_dads_army_-_lance_corporal_jones_they_dont_like_it_up_em_-_green_cropped_300x300.jpg

And we'll keep your tax thank you very much, that will be compensation for the drain on society anti-vaxxers have been. Maybe we'll apportion it though and spend it on science education as this is the thing most of the anti-vaxxers are missing! ;)
 
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There are about 1 vaccine recalls every 2 years, some voluntary as a precaution some because they pose significant risks.

The fact that they go into production and are in general use suggests that the problems were not detected during clinical trials.

More generally medicines are recalled very regularly.

Argue for vaccinations by all means, they do much more good than harm but you can't use the argument that problems are never detected after release. They, very occasionally are.

Over and above that batches are sometimes recalled because of manufacturing problems in, otherwise, safe medicines,including vaccination batches. The fda have a recall area on their site if I remember correctly.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Everyone has had the opportunity to decide by now if they want the vaccine or not. The discussion is over. There should just be a law that if you get Covid and have refused a vaccine (without medical exemption) you should be barred from receiving treatment for Covid on the NHS.

Anti-vaxers can then put their money where their mouth is.
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Will those people then be entitled to a national insurance rebate? 😎
 
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