Brexit , the negatives

HolgateCorner said:
I’ve no doubt the Tory activists will be going around Hartlepool now saying a vote for Labour is a vote to rejoin the EU.

Never underestimate the lying capabilities of the Tories whose main reason for existing is to stay in power, if they think this will swing the day to a largely uninformed electorate then that is what they will do.

Labour need to bang the drum on the threat to the NHS, rising unemployment and public spending cuts post Covid, oh and coping with the shambolic aftermath of the Tory Brexit.

There is plenty to go at.
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Labour is directionless as far as I can see. Beige so as not to alienate anyone and as a consequence standing for very little.
 
Adi_Dem said:
Nobody is stopping you moving on. I do understand why you'd want to. It's dead simple to move on in this context: just look at the thread title and if it is about Brexit don't read it and don't reply. Easy as that.

As usual, nothing of any substance just begging people to stop talking about it and 'move on'. A child could understand indeed.
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Yes you're right Adi I'll keep away from these threads. Like I say Brexit hasn't affected me. I'll let you lot continue to debate about it even though we have already left...it's pointless, but crack on👍
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
Ok has the decision be made to leave the EU Y/N ?
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Not really. Ask Northern Ireland who are linked as strongly now as they were a few months ago. The EU are our largest trading partner so we can't really leave. The only thing that has changed is we aren't a decision making member over our own destiny any more.
 
bear66 said:
Not really. Ask Northern Ireland who are linked as strongly now as they were a few months ago. The EU are our largest trading partner so we can't really leave. The only thing that has changed is we aren't a decision making member over our own destiny any more.
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Fair enough Bear I'm making the decision to leave this thread, it's dull as ditchwater....back to the footy 👍😂🔥
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
Ok has the decision be made to leave the EU Y/N ?
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We've left but we haven't arrived at where we need/want/fantasise about being at. We probably never will.
As it stands we're in flux. We're currently in breach of an international treaty, only have a temporary TCA because the EU have suspended ratification AND we can't control our border properly a) because we're nowhere near ready and b) we'd cripple business who rely on imports from the EU.

There's a lot more needs sorting out but that's the basics :)
 
As Remainers we might not like it, but even though many may not have articulated it (well), even though many had other more important reasons at the time and even though, in our opinion, there are far more drawbacks to leaving the EU than benefits, Leave voters can legitimately cite the contrast between the UK’s and the EU vaccine response as a benefit of Brexit.

Let me ask you Remainers a couple of questions.

1. Has the U.K. made a better fist of producing, procuring and delivering the vaccine than the EU?

2. If we had still been in the EU would we have therefore been enmeshed in their policy rather than our own?

Is there any answer other than ‘yes’ to the first question?

The answer to the second question is, to my mind, ‘probably’ in that if that was the policy decided by the EU with us as a member then we would most likely have fallen in line and been less successful than now.

The variable we can’t know, but some (better informed in this area than us) people might be able to judge, is how much influence we might have been able to exert and prevail on the EU to react better. It is just about possible that we might have held sway. We were the leading EU nation in pharmaceuticals, the European Medical Agency was situated here for very good reason and our influence was massive and in terms of scientific influence, Britain and Switzerland were the two big players (by some distance) in the EU becoming the world leader ahead of China, USA and Japan. It was our model of siting tech and pharmaceutical industries around our great universities and research centre hubs, leading to some outstanding partnerships between the state and private industry, that drove the EU to adopt this more widely. So it is just possible that we might have been a prevailing influence.
 
SmallTown said:
Incorrect. I guess you're used to that now. I do find your behaviour odd on here. We've even TOLD you why you're embarrassing yourself and you still do it?

Get some self respect man
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You've already admitted on here you voted Tory at the last election...Blue is Red remember 😂
Here you go Smalltown you voted Tory on local issues...you're the one who should be embarrassed. You tell lies...
fmttmboro.com

I voted Tory

I absolutely hate the way people put people in a "box" because of who they voted for. I voted Tory, however I did so because I felt they were the best of a bad bunch. I didn't have a party that represented me or my beliefs fully. There were many policies I favoured from Labour over the...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com
 
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Lefty said:
As Remainers we might not like it, but even though many may not have articulated it (well), even though many had other more important reasons at the time and even though, in our opinion, there are far more drawbacks to leaving the EU than benefits, Leave voters can legitimately cite the contrast between the UK’s and the EU vaccine response as a benefit of Brexit.

Let me ask you Remainers a couple of questions.

1. Has the U.K. made a better fist of producing, procuring and delivering the vaccine than the EU?

2. If we had still been in the EU would we have therefore been enmeshed in their policy rather than our own?

Is there any answer other than ‘yes’ to the first question?

The answer to the second question is, to my mind, ‘probably’ in that if that was the policy decided by the EU with us as a member then we would most likely have fallen in line and been less successful than now.

The variable we can’t know, but some (better informed in this area than us) people might be able to judge, is how much influence we might have been able to exert and prevail on the EU to react better. It is just about possible that we might have held sway. We were the leading EU nation in pharmaceuticals, the European Medical Agency was situated here for very good reason and our influence was massive and in terms of scientific influence, Britain and Switzerland were the two big players (by some distance) in the EU becoming the world leader ahead of China, USA and Japan. It was our model of siting tech and pharmaceutical industries around our great universities and research centre hubs, leading to some outstanding partnerships between the state and private industry, that drove the EU to adopt this more widely. So it is just possible that we might have been a prevailing influence.
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I don't think anyone is arguing against that and supporting a vaccine for cheap, worldwide use is another positive.

The USA have achieved virtually the same with a different development model, but no cheap worldwide use.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
You've already admitted on here you voted Tory at the last election...Blue is Red remember 😂
Here you go Smalltown you voted Tory on local issues...you're the one who should be embarrassed. You tell lies...
fmttmboro.com

I voted Tory

I absolutely hate the way people put people in a "box" because of who they voted for. I voted Tory, however I did so because I felt they were the best of a bad bunch. I didn't have a party that represented me or my beliefs fully. There were many policies I favoured from Labour over the...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com
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OK, what lie have I told Exactly? I know you're trying to pretend to be stupid on this thread but you know how election work in the UK?

Why are you desperate to humiliate yourself? Is it a fetish?
 
Lefty said:
As Remainers we might not like it, but even though many may not have articulated it (well), even though many had other more important reasons at the time and even though, in our opinion, there are far more drawbacks to leaving the EU than benefits, Leave voters can legitimately cite the contrast between the UK’s and the EU vaccine response as a benefit of Brexit.
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It is NOT a benefit of Brexit - we could have done exactly the same as a member of the EU.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
You've already admitted on here you voted Tory at the last election...Blue is Red remember 😂
Here you go Smalltown you voted Tory on local issues...you're the one who should be embarrassed. You tell lies...
fmttmboro.com

I voted Tory

I absolutely hate the way people put people in a "box" because of who they voted for. I voted Tory, however I did so because I felt they were the best of a bad bunch. I didn't have a party that represented me or my beliefs fully. There were many policies I favoured from Labour over the...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com
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I thought you were leaving the thread?

And as for being as dull as ditchwater it's managed to keep you engaged for a significant period of time. Go figure.
 
Lefty said:
As Remainers we might not like it, but even though many may not have articulated it (well), even though many had other more important reasons at the time and even though, in our opinion, there are far more drawbacks to leaving the EU than benefits, Leave voters can legitimately cite the contrast between the UK’s and the EU vaccine response as a benefit of Brexit.

Let me ask you Remainers a couple of questions.

1. Has the U.K. made a better fist of producing, procuring and delivering the vaccine than the EU?

2. If we had still been in the EU would we have therefore been enmeshed in their policy rather than our own?

Is there any answer other than ‘yes’ to the first question?

The answer to the second question is, to my mind, ‘probably’ in that if that was the policy decided by the EU with us as a member then we would most likely have fallen in line and been less successful than now.

The variable we can’t know, but some (better informed in this area than us) people might be able to judge, is how much influence we might have been able to exert and prevail on the EU to react better. It is just about possible that we might have held sway. We were the leading EU nation in pharmaceuticals, the European Medical Agency was situated here for very good reason and our influence was massive and in terms of scientific influence, Britain and Switzerland were the two big players (by some distance) in the EU becoming the world leader ahead of China, USA and Japan. It was our model of siting tech and pharmaceutical industries around our great universities and research centre hubs, leading to some outstanding partnerships between the state and private industry, that drove the EU to adopt this more widely. So it is just possible that we might have been a prevailing influence.
Click to expand...

The answer to question 2 is inevitably conjecture. I am far from convinced we would have approached it differently as an EU member and I am pretty certain that we would have had a significant influence on directing the policy. But I don't think question 2 is the right question to ask at all. The right question is whether we did anything that we couldn't do as an EU member. The answer, factually and objectively, is no. It is therefore logically flawed to argue that something we were perfectly entitled to do inside the EU was a benefit of being outside of the EU.
 
Adi_Dem said:
The answer to question 2 is inevitably conjecture. I am far from convinced we would have approached it differently as an EU member and I am pretty certain that we would have had a significant influence on directing the policy. But I don't think question 2 is the right question to ask at all. The right question is whether we did anything that we couldn't do as an EU member. The answer, factually and objectively, is no. It is therefore logically flawed to argue that something we were perfectly entitled to do inside the EU was a benefit of being outside of the EU.
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If anything surely we would have had more vaccines because as part of the EU we would have been due a share of EU procured vaccines, but we would also have had the vaccines that we funded and procured ourselves, independent of the central EU vaccine programme.
 
HolgateCorner said:
52% of those who voted were very open to the message though and bothered to get out and vote.

The real disappointment is the 10 million who obviously didn’t want to leave (or they would have positively voted for change) but couldn’t bother their backsides to vote to remain.

These are the ones who created the gap for the chancers and opportunists like Farage and Bunter to wriggle through.
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HolgateCorner, you & a few others are excellent posters, you will put your point across without any hint of name calling someone who has the opposite view
I don't mind post after after post about Brexit appearing on here, this forum has threads on every topic imaginable & long may it continue, thats what's good about flyme
What gets me is the constant snipping that goes with it, that's the reason I get involved, the immature way certain posters have to go because what comes back to them they don't agree with

There was a thread about the government been responsible for the recent riots in Bristol due to the bil regarding public protests that we SHOULD have the right for free speech & the right to protest etc & I 100% agree with that, yet on another day, because someone voted how they seen fit & others didn't agree, they are classed as idiots, thick, stupid, racists, bigots etc

Just have debates & talk like adults, this will be my final post on any political thread because you can go on forever, as has been rightly pointed out, just ignore anything regarding Brexit & I will, but carry on, that's what this forum is for

Have a nice day all
 
BoroMart said:
If anything surely we would have had more vaccines because as part of the EU we would have been due a share of EU procured vaccines, but we would also have had the vaccines that we funded and procured ourselves, independent of the central EU vaccine programme.
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I'm not at all convinced that our approach will turn out to be the right approach anyway. Speed wasn't the only factor to be taken into account. Universal timing is important. I hope it doesn't turn out to be another decision made in haste and repented at leisure.
 
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