Vaccine passports

There was a very good artcle about this in the Grauniad last week if you can be ar sed to find it (I can't) dealing with the pros and cons. In short it might be an attractive idea but in practice it could turn out to be a nightmare because it would likely bring with it all kinds of complications and unintended consequences. For instance how does it handle mutations? Answer - not very well. What about people who can't have it? Are they barred out of everywhere? If not how do you deal with it? Is it a card? Will it be valid overseas? Will you need your passport stamped? Will the passport have to be updated every time there's a mutation?

Pretty much a nightmare as far as I can see, on purely practical grounds, and there's loads more than those couple of examples.
 
Alvez_48 said:
Well have a think about it, do some reading and maybe you'll change your mind. Maybe not.

I personally try to look into the future and wouldn't be a fan of 10 years from now scanning into every shop/work/leisure establishment and that data being mined by state actors. You could argue that people do that with their phones already, you'd be wrong.

When you watch films like minority report do you say to yourself I don't get the problem here?
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People have enough data about us already either legally or illegally gained sadly that’s the way it is. In you ten years time example what would they be mining that they don’t already have access to ? The fact you’ve had the vaccine.

I think it’s fine using a restaurant as an example - if I had the choice I’d go to one where people have had the vaccine, knowing you are with people and staff who have also been protected I would be much happier. That is down to the individual - if you don’t take the vaccine you goto restaurants that accept that with like minded people.

As with the Spain example there is a very good reason that countries are doing this so why shouldn’t individual towns and establishments within those towns? People need to move away from the conspiracy zone and accept that this is being done for your own protection and not some sinister plot.

as often quoted we do this every time we want to go on holiday where a yellow fever jab is mandatory.
 
FatCat said:
People have enough data about us already either legally or illegally gained sadly that’s the way it is. In you ten years time example what would they be mining that they don’t already have access to ? The fact you’ve had the vaccine.

I think it’s fine using a restaurant as an example - if I had the choice I’d go to one where people have had the vaccine, knowing you are with people and staff who have also been protected I would be much happier. That is down to the individual - if you don’t take the vaccine you goto restaurants that accept that with like minded people.

As with the Spain example there is a very good reason that countries are doing this so why shouldn’t individual towns and establishments within those towns? People need to move away from the conspiracy zone and accept that this is being done for your own protection and not some sinister plot.

as often quoted we do this every time we want to go on holiday where a yellow fever jab is mandatory.
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If you've had the vaccine then I don't see the issue?

That's not anti vax by the way before anybody jumps down my throat.
 
This is a complex issue which at its heart, gets to some fundamental arguments about freedom, choice and privacy. It's not going to be easy/quick to address.

Whilst on the face of it I'm supportive I think, domestically at least, it will fall into the "too hard" basket for the government. They'll probably pass the buck to individual establishments which will likely ensure it becomes either commonplace or unworkable and discarded in pretty quick time.

International travel is trickier to circumvent - as soon as one country goes down this route others will (must?) follow, if we're to enable any sort of travel. How the hell it works in the short term with varying infection rates, variants and vaccine roll out progress by country is anyone's guess.
 
Laughing said:
They possibly can CtC. However they cannot enforce vaccination on their staff, waiters, cleaning staff, the guy fixing the boiler, the dreyman, the crisp delivery guy.

You see where I am going.
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I'm not saying I agree with it by the way, in the 70s (when I started boozing) we were subject to all sorts of restrictions that shouldn't have applied.
 
I am sure my view will be no surprise and be disagreed with by most on here.

I feel the vaccine should be mandatory unless their are strong medical reasons why it is inappropriate. I also appreciate that it will never happen though. People who choose not to, increase their personal risk of death, as well as those of their family, friends and anyone they have contact with, thereby increasing the risk to everyone. They also allow the virus increased opportunity to mutate and beat the effectiveness of vaccines which will lead to more deaths as a result, increased burden on the state, future lockdowns and cost to the economy and the way we have to live.

I understand and accept we have to live with the virus and accept a degree of risk. The vaccine is no guarantee of safety and some will still get Covid-19 despite being vaccinated. The more vulnerable amongst us will therefore be ill and a few will still die earlier than perhaps they otherwise would due to weakened immune systems and linking in with other underlying conditions.

I feel strongly that all hospital and care home staff should be made to have the jab. It is already mandatory to have certain jabs in some jobs i think, like the hepatitis jab, so why not the covid jab. Lets remember many people caught Covid-19 after being admitted to hospital for other reasons and subsequently died. I definitely feel some employers should have the right to say no jab, no job such as the caring professions. People have the right to refuse the jab, but with that comes certain things they miss out on. I am sure if it was a requirement for their job more would then take up the offer. Also if a passport was required to access venues like pubs, clubs, sporting venues etc we would see more take up. I would make that happen as a method of encouraging vaccine take up thereby maximising the safety as far as any government can.

Those refusing the vaccine have no way of knowing for sure if they have the disease and can spread it, just like we don’t if vaccinated tbf, but the less risk of spreading to minimise the dangers the better and the vaccines may also help that way. This virus will be here forever and will mutate meaning boosters will be needed regularly. Those against the vaccines help the virus more than they help themselves, they will eventually develop vulnerabilities and risk serious illness and death and want the NHS to save them in hospital where the spread could cause the death of others never mind themselves. I think it is everyones civic duty to have it.
 
I think a vaccine passport is OK. In fact I'd prefer to be in pubs where they check, rather than not. (Only once everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated though. It would be too unfair otherwise).

Like with all these things, I expect there will be some pubs which would check, and some which would make a point of being non-vaccine friendly, or don't check.

It's absolutely peoples' choice not to be vaccinated. If that choice then impacts (or can do) on others (a bit like the smoking analogy) then I don't have a problem with the vaccine passport idea.
 
Makes sense travelling internationally.

Within the country I would like to see riots if they attempted to prevent people engaging in day to day activities based upon their vaccination status. But we will probably just accept it on our slide towards dystopia
 
ThirdLeg said:
Makes sense travelling internationally.

Within the country I would like to see riots if they attempted to prevent people engaging in day to day activities based upon their vaccination status. But we will probably just accept it on our slide towards dystopia
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You'd like to see riots? Wow.
 
locomansimon said:
vaccine should be mandatory, end of !
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No it shouldn't we're not in Nazi Germany in 1939. We should vaccinate everybody, babies, pregnant women... Before you answer that, of course they should be exempt that just demonstrates how little you actually thought about this before you typed that nonsense
 
Randy said:
If you've had the vaccine then I don't see the issue?

That's not anti vax by the way before anybody jumps down my throat.
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Vaccine isn't 100% effective though, anyone with a lower immune system particularly the elderly will still be at some risk even if they have had a vaccine, especially around those that haven't
 
Laughing said:
No it shouldn't we're not in Nazi Germany in 1939. We should vaccinate everybody, babies, pregnant women... Before you answer that, of course they should be exempt that just demonstrates how little you actually thought about this before you typed that nonsense
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Germany approved compulsory measles vaccination in 2019.
 
Laughing said:
Stop doing that Bear! Interesting though it is. I am sure you get my point.
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I do. But it was generally supported across the political divide, except for the Green party. Prior to vaccination, about 2.5 million people a year died of measles.
 
ThirdLeg said:
Makes sense travelling internationally.

Within the country I would like to see riots if they attempted to prevent people engaging in day to day activities based upon their vaccination status. But we will probably just accept it on our slide towards dystopia
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Riots leads to injury, destruction and possible death. Why would you want that? What good do riots generally do in modern Britain? It would simply play into the hands of criminals and the gang lords who destroy local communities and would lead to greater state controls if anything. Riots are the last thing this country and local communities need.
 
bear66 said:
I do. But it was generally supported across the political divide, except for the Green party. Prior to vaccination, about 2.5 million people a year died of measles.
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Got a link to a news article on that Bear, would be interested to read how it was percieved by the general public. One of my colleagues lives in Germany I'll have to ask him. He did say during the first lockdown that Germans are notorious for obeying rules. I was doing some stuff for Adidas a couple of years ago and I noticed that folks wouldn't jay walk, even if it was midnight and not a car in sight as they enforce it with spot fines.
 
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