Steve Gibson Supports the New Proposals for the League Shake Up According to the Telegraph.
- Thread starter Zoophonic
- Start date
So, to summarise what a lot of you are saying, a rescue package for struggling lower league clubs should not happen because fans of Football League teams don't want to see Man Utd and Liverpool changing the governance of the Prem League.
If you were shipwrecked in the Atlantic, would you turn down being rescued by a container ship just so you could be saved by the RNLI?
If you were shipwrecked in the Atlantic, would you turn down being rescued by a container ship just so you could be saved by the RNLI?
Otto42
Well-known member
Despite all the cross words we all know there will be some kind of compromise where the big six remain in the Premier League for now but with greater power, the EFL will maybe get the bail out.
In a few years time the big six will be back with more threats for more power and money. The smaller premier clubs are the ones being shafted here as the collective of the PL is reduced. The EFL was shafted when the Premier League was set up so there's some kind of karma here.
Gibson from what I can see is in support because it is in our interest as a Championship club, he would probably think differently if he were Burnley's owner. Each club acts in it's own self interest, which is an inevitable consequence of weak leadership and governance at the top of the game and by government's wedded to the free market since the 80s.
In a few years time the big six will be back with more threats for more power and money. The smaller premier clubs are the ones being shafted here as the collective of the PL is reduced. The EFL was shafted when the Premier League was set up so there's some kind of karma here.
Gibson from what I can see is in support because it is in our interest as a Championship club, he would probably think differently if he were Burnley's owner. Each club acts in it's own self interest, which is an inevitable consequence of weak leadership and governance at the top of the game and by government's wedded to the free market since the 80s.
Borobarmy
Well-known member
It’s called selling your soul . These rats are trying to land grab now from weakened clubs and id rather watch non league footy than be a part of that .
ps this big six bollox is just that . Liverpool have won prem league no more than Leicester or Blackburn . Manure not won it for 8 years .
Jan_Aage_Fjortoft
Well-known member
Depends on if the containership is full of cannibals ready to eat you when the situation arises.
They might be putting the money into saving clubs now but in a few years time they have the power then to cut them adrift and do whatever they want with English football. Did you know that they would have the power to veto changes in the EFL structure? From schedules, wage caps, FFP plans, league sizes etc. Everything would have to be approved by the PL and and if they don't like the changes they could use their vote to stop them being implemented.
And the money is a loan. A loan that would be repaid from these future fees from the TV deal. A TV deal that could change drastically as the big clubs take even more games away from the central package. They'd also own the right to sell the EFL games for whatever price they want under whatever terms they negotiate.
They might be putting the money into saving clubs now but in a few years time they have the power then to cut them adrift and do whatever they want with English football. Did you know that they would have the power to veto changes in the EFL structure? From schedules, wage caps, FFP plans, league sizes etc. Everything would have to be approved by the PL and and if they don't like the changes they could use their vote to stop them being implemented.
And the money is a loan. A loan that would be repaid from these future fees from the TV deal. A TV deal that could change drastically as the big clubs take even more games away from the central package. They'd also own the right to sell the EFL games for whatever price they want under whatever terms they negotiate.
Borobarmy
Well-known member
Don’t forget the televised kick offs on a Saturday at 3 pm . Oh and how we’ll roll over and become B teams
BoroGold
Well-known member
Warnock is against it because he loves the game like we all do first and foremost and making a living out of it second.
The money is God Americans should never have been allowed to get within a million miles of the game, it is only a matter of time before they've killed it and the powers that be in the game should hang their heads in shame for letting it happen.
Zoophonic
Well-known member
We don't know if he is against it yet because he hasn't given a view. He may never do so whilst employed by the Club.
Otto42
Well-known member
Not based on any evidence, but which two league one sides appear to have built sustainable models recently? I would guess at Accrington out of necessity due to their size and Lincoln since promotion out of the non-league under the Cowleys!
r00fie1
Well-known member
So long as thr RNLI was from Redcar
Same_as_before
Well-known member
I know one thing Gibbo will soon give up his £20m (ish) season ticket.
People on here are green with envy of his wealth, the fact he dared admit he voted Tory.
The cards will tumble down then and the £400 a year ticket holders will be paying for non league football.
I sometimes dispair at the attitudes of local people. If a bloke has 50p more than them the jealously spouts out.
People on here are green with envy of his wealth, the fact he dared admit he voted Tory.
The cards will tumble down then and the £400 a year ticket holders will be paying for non league football.
I sometimes dispair at the attitudes of local people. If a bloke has 50p more than them the jealously spouts out.
Michael_Vronsky
Well-known member
'Dared to admit he voted Tory'.
Nope, it was more the fact that he sent out letters to people telling them how to vote. Disgraceful.
Nope, it was more the fact that he sent out letters to people telling them how to vote. Disgraceful.
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
re Super League, Why be afraid of this threat? The big clubs would be taking a big risk. If the idea is so attractive they would already have done it by now. Call their bluff.
BoroMart
Well-known member
You underestimate the mood entirely if you think any questioning of Gibbo either politically or running the club is anything to do with him having wealth. I would think most fans reckon he earned it as it wasn't handed to him, he built it.
r00fie1
Well-known member
This from the "comments" colum in the gazette to todays article by Craig Jhons on Gibsons support for the big power-grab.:
Guy Bailey
Excellent use of Faust as the analogy especially as I think Rick Perry is Mephastophles himself.
I would draw a different, closer analogy. BY cheerleading this awfulness and becoming it's figurehead in the Daily Mail of all places, Steve Gibson is setting himself up as the Marshall Petain of Vichy France.
A hero of the Republic in the first world war, he led the French to victory and probable survival in the battle of Verdun. However all this was undone in World War Two when he acquiesced to the Nazis and became head of a phoney, despised puppet regime.
The Hero of 1986 who was carried shoulder high with the League Cup in 2004 could consign it and us to permanent sporting obscurity in return for what?
The football equivalent of a Payday loan.
The EFL would probably get a better deal from Smack Converters.
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https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/project-big-picture-could-see-19102196
[Edited]
Project Big Picture could see Middlesbrough and other EFL clubs make a deal with the devil
By
Craig Johns
The EFL and it's member clubs could do worse than remember Christopher Marlowe's famous play as they themselves weigh-in with support for Project Big Picture - the controversial new plans revealed in the Sunday Telegraph to completely overhaul the English Football League.
Middlesbrough owner and chairman Steve Gibson spoke exclusively to Mail Online on Tuesday evening, accepting that while there was a lot of self-interest involved, the bailout was absolutely essential and the overall document was better for the future of football.
His support, and that of almost all other EFL owners is understandable. Only they will know the true implications of the current pandemic - and the financial losses are likely eye-watering.
He, an owner who runs the football club he loves in a sensible and sustainable way, continuing to fund it while not risking its long-term survival on short-term, glory-hunting gambles, is as far from anyone to blame for the current predicament many EFL clubs find themselves in.
But who are the changes planned in Project Big Picture better for? Certainly not the fans.
The brainchild of the owners of Liverpool and Manchester United - the project would hand controlling power to the Premier League's top six in voting key matters in the top flight - including whether to accept takeovers at any top-flight sides.
The power-grab has been slammed universally by supporters - with even the supporters' groups of the top six sides set to profit the most from the overhaul releasing a joint-statement condemning it.
So why are the EFL and its clubs - Middlesbrough included - backing it?
It simply comes down to money, and the financial bailout that Project Big Picture offers.
The plans would see an upfront bailout of £250m from the Premier League, while in the long-term 25% of the combined revenues of the Premier League and EFL would go to the EFL - a rise from the current deal of just 4%.
The financial implications of the coronavirus have left many clubs on the brink with a Sky Sports polling of Championship clubs revealing that six fear for their future survival without a bailout, while another eight are considering, or have already started, a process of making staff redundant.
It's clear that the financial bailout is one of the numerous upsides to the plans on offer - and it's therefore understandable that Gibson and almost every other EFL club has backed it. With no fans allowed into stadiums and such little broadcast money arriving, the future of the clubs is at stake here.
That's where it differs to Dr Faustus' tragic tale because unlike Faustus who made a deal with the devil for something he desired, EFL clubs are dealing with the devil out of necessity and survival. But it shouldn't be that way.
In that respect, they are not the villain in this piece, and instead EFL chairman Rick Parry and the owners of Manchester United and Liverpool who have spearheaded these controversial plans can step forward at this point.
Parry, it appears, has backed the EFL into a corner. By supporting the plans so strongly, he has seemingly severed ties with Premier League officials - who have slammed him for his support of it - thus making the likelihood of any other kind of financial bailout without Big Picture anytime soon unlikely. In that respect, if Project Big Picture does not succeed, his position at the EFL may be untenable if EFL clubs are to get the financial support they so desperately need. It looks like the desperate move of a desperate man.
Meanwhile, the two powerbrokers of these new plans are the biggest villains of all. Reports suggest their plans come from a place of concern for the English football pyramid and its future survival.
If that were the case, why would the financial bailout need to be married to this clear power-grab? They're so worried that of course they need a big favour in return.
Quite clearly, the owners at Manchester United and Liverpool are grotesquely using the crisis of others to gain leverage to seize more power. It leaves a bitter taste as the greed in modern football is never more so highlighted.
Maybe now isn't the best time to discuss the irony of this at Manchester United where the Glazer family can't get their own house in order at Old Trafford as they continue to plunge the club further and further into comedy territory, but they want greater control over the top flight!
Together they've sucked Parry in, who like a desperate Dr Faustus has only considered the short-term gains over the long-term implications of the deal.
The financial bailout needed by the EFL, as Gibson rightly told the Daily Mail, is essential - but it has to come without that power-grab of the top six.
Supporters are unanimously against this project for a reason - they can see the long-term implications and the removal of much hope for the clubs in the future.
One of the clear motivations of the power-grab is securing their status at the top of the pyramid. The power to reject ambitious takeovers and to individually sell eight games a year to international supporters to make extra money are worrying signs of a top-flight moving towards creating an established and impenetrable elite.
Currently in England, broadcast revenue is shared equally across the 20 Premier League clubs. The Project Big Picture plans create the opportunity for clubs to sell eight games a year individually to international broadcasters - with Liverpool and Manchester United looking to cash-in on their global stature, more akin to the way things are done in Spain's La Liga.
With their voting power secure, what's to say that eight games won't become ten or 15 or every single game in the future? What that creates is a situation much like Spain where two or three sides rule over the rest by some considerable distance. The finances involved make the gulf in class almost tedious.
The competitive, unpredictable nature of the Premier League is what makes it one of the best leagues in the world.
We risk losing that, and worse still, we risk losing hope for fans.
EFL owners may ask themselves this: What is the point for a supporter, if there is no hope and there is no chance of glory? What keeps supporters coming to watch their clubs when they can? It's the hope, it's the dreams - it's that hope that one day their side will do a Leicester City.
Gibson isn't wrong that the top six already have more influence, but this wouldn't increase their influence, it would be a total surrender of power and control.
We need something in place that secures the future of EFL clubs in the short-term, without leaving ourselves at the mercy of the devil's tricks.
Guy Bailey
Excellent use of Faust as the analogy especially as I think Rick Perry is Mephastophles himself.
I would draw a different, closer analogy. BY cheerleading this awfulness and becoming it's figurehead in the Daily Mail of all places, Steve Gibson is setting himself up as the Marshall Petain of Vichy France.
A hero of the Republic in the first world war, he led the French to victory and probable survival in the battle of Verdun. However all this was undone in World War Two when he acquiesced to the Nazis and became head of a phoney, despised puppet regime.
The Hero of 1986 who was carried shoulder high with the League Cup in 2004 could consign it and us to permanent sporting obscurity in return for what?
The football equivalent of a Payday loan.
The EFL would probably get a better deal from Smack Converters.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/project-big-picture-could-see-19102196
[Edited]
Project Big Picture could see Middlesbrough and other EFL clubs make a deal with the devil
By
Craig Johns
- 14:17, 14 OCT 2020
- Updated14:28, 14 OCT 2020
The EFL and it's member clubs could do worse than remember Christopher Marlowe's famous play as they themselves weigh-in with support for Project Big Picture - the controversial new plans revealed in the Sunday Telegraph to completely overhaul the English Football League.
Middlesbrough owner and chairman Steve Gibson spoke exclusively to Mail Online on Tuesday evening, accepting that while there was a lot of self-interest involved, the bailout was absolutely essential and the overall document was better for the future of football.
His support, and that of almost all other EFL owners is understandable. Only they will know the true implications of the current pandemic - and the financial losses are likely eye-watering.
He, an owner who runs the football club he loves in a sensible and sustainable way, continuing to fund it while not risking its long-term survival on short-term, glory-hunting gambles, is as far from anyone to blame for the current predicament many EFL clubs find themselves in.
But who are the changes planned in Project Big Picture better for? Certainly not the fans.
The brainchild of the owners of Liverpool and Manchester United - the project would hand controlling power to the Premier League's top six in voting key matters in the top flight - including whether to accept takeovers at any top-flight sides.
The power-grab has been slammed universally by supporters - with even the supporters' groups of the top six sides set to profit the most from the overhaul releasing a joint-statement condemning it.
So why are the EFL and its clubs - Middlesbrough included - backing it?
It simply comes down to money, and the financial bailout that Project Big Picture offers.
The plans would see an upfront bailout of £250m from the Premier League, while in the long-term 25% of the combined revenues of the Premier League and EFL would go to the EFL - a rise from the current deal of just 4%.
The financial implications of the coronavirus have left many clubs on the brink with a Sky Sports polling of Championship clubs revealing that six fear for their future survival without a bailout, while another eight are considering, or have already started, a process of making staff redundant.
It's clear that the financial bailout is one of the numerous upsides to the plans on offer - and it's therefore understandable that Gibson and almost every other EFL club has backed it. With no fans allowed into stadiums and such little broadcast money arriving, the future of the clubs is at stake here.
That's where it differs to Dr Faustus' tragic tale because unlike Faustus who made a deal with the devil for something he desired, EFL clubs are dealing with the devil out of necessity and survival. But it shouldn't be that way.
In that respect, they are not the villain in this piece, and instead EFL chairman Rick Parry and the owners of Manchester United and Liverpool who have spearheaded these controversial plans can step forward at this point.
Parry, it appears, has backed the EFL into a corner. By supporting the plans so strongly, he has seemingly severed ties with Premier League officials - who have slammed him for his support of it - thus making the likelihood of any other kind of financial bailout without Big Picture anytime soon unlikely. In that respect, if Project Big Picture does not succeed, his position at the EFL may be untenable if EFL clubs are to get the financial support they so desperately need. It looks like the desperate move of a desperate man.
Meanwhile, the two powerbrokers of these new plans are the biggest villains of all. Reports suggest their plans come from a place of concern for the English football pyramid and its future survival.
If that were the case, why would the financial bailout need to be married to this clear power-grab? They're so worried that of course they need a big favour in return.
Quite clearly, the owners at Manchester United and Liverpool are grotesquely using the crisis of others to gain leverage to seize more power. It leaves a bitter taste as the greed in modern football is never more so highlighted.
Maybe now isn't the best time to discuss the irony of this at Manchester United where the Glazer family can't get their own house in order at Old Trafford as they continue to plunge the club further and further into comedy territory, but they want greater control over the top flight!
Together they've sucked Parry in, who like a desperate Dr Faustus has only considered the short-term gains over the long-term implications of the deal.
The financial bailout needed by the EFL, as Gibson rightly told the Daily Mail, is essential - but it has to come without that power-grab of the top six.
Supporters are unanimously against this project for a reason - they can see the long-term implications and the removal of much hope for the clubs in the future.
One of the clear motivations of the power-grab is securing their status at the top of the pyramid. The power to reject ambitious takeovers and to individually sell eight games a year to international supporters to make extra money are worrying signs of a top-flight moving towards creating an established and impenetrable elite.
Currently in England, broadcast revenue is shared equally across the 20 Premier League clubs. The Project Big Picture plans create the opportunity for clubs to sell eight games a year individually to international broadcasters - with Liverpool and Manchester United looking to cash-in on their global stature, more akin to the way things are done in Spain's La Liga.
With their voting power secure, what's to say that eight games won't become ten or 15 or every single game in the future? What that creates is a situation much like Spain where two or three sides rule over the rest by some considerable distance. The finances involved make the gulf in class almost tedious.
The competitive, unpredictable nature of the Premier League is what makes it one of the best leagues in the world.
We risk losing that, and worse still, we risk losing hope for fans.
EFL owners may ask themselves this: What is the point for a supporter, if there is no hope and there is no chance of glory? What keeps supporters coming to watch their clubs when they can? It's the hope, it's the dreams - it's that hope that one day their side will do a Leicester City.
Gibson isn't wrong that the top six already have more influence, but this wouldn't increase their influence, it would be a total surrender of power and control.
We need something in place that secures the future of EFL clubs in the short-term, without leaving ourselves at the mercy of the devil's tricks.
Michael_Vronsky
Well-known member
Steve must've made up and sorted out his differences with Parry. Wasn't it common knowledge that he hated Parry when he was at Liverpool for the under hand way they tapped Ziege.
Steve Gibson knows more about the finances of football in general, and MFC in particular than anyone on here. Even so, some people are second guessing him, and criticizing his opinion. To misquote Kipling, "if you can keep your head when all those around you are losing theirs, it's entirely possible you haven't grasped the full weight of the situation". Lots of clubs are really close to the edge, the Prem League is not obliged to help - yet it is - but some people still think there's a white knight shaking the money tree somewhere. Those 14 or so Prem League clubs are jeopardising the future of the endangered football league teams by opposing this plan.