Keir Starmer

viv_andersons_nana said:
As for Starmer, he’s invoked Thatcher because he’s trying to get Tories to vote for him. It’s as simple as that. He will have known how it would play out not just on the left but right across the media and, like a lot of things he’s done that have got people’s backs up, has done it anyway.
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Correct of course.

I wouldn't be so surprised if the telegraph article overstating the praise of Thatcher was part of the deal for Starmer to write an article for the telegraph. We know his MO. His method for wooing tory voters is more about attacking socialists than anything else.
 
SuperStu said:
The quote about Thatcher isn't from an interview. It's from an article Starmer wrote for the telegraph. Its not some off the cuff moment where hes drawn on an example, it's a thing he'll have had party staff draft for him to promote a specific perception of him.

So its not that Roofies removing any context, you've just got the context wrong.
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The reaction to that article is the context, everything stems from it. It's been twisted into whatever narrative suits. He picked 3 leaders who won landslides on the back of having a focused purpose. The link was simply wanting his Labour government to have a similar drive.

He simply does not state that he agreed with Thatchers policies or the way she implemented them.

He's courting the Tory vote, which is needed to win a similar landslide. You obviously disagree with that, but time will tell if he's correct in doing so, in terms of being elected.
 
Chris_Boro said:
It was literally 2 lines in a wider point, in a longer interview. He never "talked" about anyone in it, rather used them to highlight his point.

One sentence pulled out, twisted and spun. Our media, going into bat for the Tories and people are still falling for it.
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I’ve read it.
I haven’t fallen for anything. I found his words insulting.
You didn’t. That’s fine.
 
Chris_Boro said:
He simply does not state that he agreed with Thatchers policies or the way she implemented them.
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Doesn't matter. Hes obviously trying to be perceived as admiring of her isn't he?

Chris_Boro said:
He's courting the Tory vote
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By... writing an article that includes a line that reads quite positively about Thatcher? Yes? So you actually do agree that he's praising her, you just don't want left wing folk to criticise him for doing so?

Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism.
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If you asked someone you otherwise didn't know what they thought about Thatcher, and they said "well I think she dragged Britain out of its stupor by setting lose our natural entrepreneurialism" would you assume they felt positively about her or negatively?
 
SuperStu said:
Doesn't matter. Hes obviously trying to be perceived as admiring of her isn't he?



By... writing an article that includes a line that reads quite positively about Thatcher? Yes? So you actually do agree that he's praising her, you just don't want left wing folk to criticise him for doing so?



If you asked someone you otherwise didn't know what they thought about Thatcher, and they said "well I think she dragged Britain out of its stupor by setting lose our natural entrepreneurialism" would you assume they felt positively about her or negatively?
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He's praising the 3 leaders he mentioned for sticking to their purpose, their purpose that won them landslide election victories. He's stated he does not agree with Thatchers policies or the way she implemented them.

It's a comparison to the current Tory party who have no vision or purpose.

Your last point twists what he said into something he never said. That's the whole point. Single quotes have been lifted and published without the context of the article to the point where people believe the whole article was about Thatcher, which it wasn't.

However, Starmer has been stupid in not realising that this would happen.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Your last point twists what he said into something he never said. That's the whole point. Single quotes have been lifted and published without the context of the article to the point where people believe the whole article was about Thatcher, which it wasn't.
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:unsure: Chris you're doing exactly what you accuse me of. I've not said anywhere that the whole article was about Thatcher. I don't think anyone on here has. So you're twisting that to something that hasn't been said.

My last point is essentially quoting him twice over and asking if a reasonable person could assume he admired Thatcher or not.

Chris_Boro said:
However, Starmer has been stupid in not realising that this would happen.
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I'm repeating myself but come on, let's not be naive. Of course Starmer’s team knew the Thatcher line would be picked up. Moving further right and punching those to his left has been Starmers MO for 3 years. It's a design feature not a bug.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
As for Starmer, he’s invoked Thatcher because he’s trying to get Tories to vote for him. It’s as simple as that. He will have known how it would play out not just on the left but right across the media and, like a lot of things he’s done that have got people’s backs up, has done it anyway. It’s up to him. He’s going win a landslide next spring with or without my vote so he can crack on. To my mind it’s crass, insensitive and borderline offensive that he invoked her in a positive light but what can you do.

You just have to hope and pray that all of those people who seem convinced he’ll lurch to the left once he takes up office are proven right.
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100% this. A calculated decision, knowing the offense many on the Left (hey, me included) would take. But he did it anyway.

I've said before, I felt the party had to move on from Corbyn. I was gutted, but needs must. I voted for Starmer in the leadership vote, and I've supported him through (what I thought was) carefully avoiding any media pile on ammunition (although I withdrew my membership when Corbyn was booted out).

But everyone has red lines. It saddens me, but he is beyond mine. I detest him.
 
Starmer knows we have to court the two bob tories and even the prospective Reform party voters ,you know the homeless from COB, the ones Viv pointed out. Who was that druggie who championed Mr Preston again ?. Labour have to get in, Starmer knows it. Wake up you ego maniacs FFS.
 
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SuperStu said:
Bigotry? Can I ask is that aimed at me then? For posting a link to an article about Starmer?
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No it wasn’t. I enjoy the conversation with you on here.
A good example of what I’m talking about is Roofie’s reply (just above).

Someone asks for an example of where KS uses the word ’praise’ and we get the newspaper clickbait headlines.
How does that help?

Ref your earlier points
I can see how you get to ‘sort of praised her’.

Not sure if you watched the Brown/Blair years when they thought long and hard about doing an article for The Telegraph. The first one got knocked back because it was anodyne.

They have to give the Telegraph something to get an article printed and - I agree he has invoked Thatcher to do just that …..and get votes.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
You just have to hope and pray that all of those people who seem convinced he’ll lurch to the left once he takes up office are proven right.
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I don't think anyone wants him to "lurch to the left" on here. You don't because you dislike him as an individual. I don't want him to do that either.
 
LessoftheLip said:
I don't think anyone wants him to "lurch to the left" on here. You don't because you dislike him as an individual. I don't want him to do that either.
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What do you mean? I think you’ll find there are plenty of people like me who hope like hell he lurches to the left when he gets into power. I’m sure many of those defending Starmer believe that once in power he’ll show more traditional Labour values, when he no longer needs to play the media game and walk the tightrope between committing to something progressive and positive for all, while trying to make himself bulletproof to the RW media and appeasing the Tory centre voters he aims to win over.

Seems to me the more he says recently, the more people there are who give up on that hope and realise that he may not be the person they hoped he was.
Time will tell ultimately, but I dare say most who have major doubts, like me, will be very happy and even hopeful to be proved massively wrong about him.
 
The thing with starmer is he's not talking to left wing voters. He's not talking to left of centre voters.

He's not talking to people who are politically aware even. He knows he can, to a point, take those voters for granted. He can also afford to lose a few because of our prehistoric not fit for purpose system where not everyone's vote counts the same.

He won't be doing it on a whim, I'm sure Labour will have no end of data supporting this. Anyone with half a brain and shred of decency will be terrified of the tories staying in power. He's relying on it.

His messaging is aimed at people like the boards former newspaper cuttings enthusiast erimus. Fundamentally decent enough people but completely brainwashed by the likes of the mail and with some outdated values (often linked to generation).

You can't reason or debate with people like that. Cognitive dissonance sets in and they just double down in their beliefs even if they can't explain the logic behind them (because of course there usually isn't any).

So the alternative, and I think it's pretty clear this is what Labour are doing, is to play along a bit. It's very cynical, but there's an argument they've tried the other way and it's not worked.

Hence best distance yourself from Corbyn because "Corbyn would've been a disaster" (although most probably liked all his policies).

Don't mention socialism because socialism = bad (although they don't understand what it is. See also: woke).

Pretend that you don't think brexit wasn't a F***ing stupid decision and act of national self harm. Instead sooth those egos and claim it's only because the tories are inept as to why it's not been a thumping success.

It's not exactly inspiring stuff, but it's what's happening.

Will they shift left once in power? I think they will a bit, but probably not as much, or as quickly, as I'd like.

Do we have a choice? Not really. Tories morphing into a fascist lite ukip tribute act has seen to that. They need removing ASAP.

I try to just let it all wash over me now. It's not for me anything that comes out of Starmers mouth. It's for so called "hero voters". Depressing state of affairs that's as much a result of our sham "democracy" as anything else.
 
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