Keir Starmer

Can any of the grown ups on the forum explain the politics as to why he doesn't want Labour to back this? Because it's obviously down to politics, everything Starmer does is with an eye on the polls and not leaving himself open to attack.

Genuinely curious and our useless media can't be bothered.

Depressing state of affairs when party politics and the national discourse stops our "leaders" (on either side) being able to openly call for a stop to bloodshed.

Just add it to the list of shameful things about the nation I suppose.
 
festa5 said:
Can any of the grown ups on the forum explain the politics as to why he doesn't want Labour to back this? Because it's obviously down to politics, everything Starmer does is with an eye on the polls and not leaving himself open to attack.

Genuinely curious and our useless media can't be bothered.

Depressing state of affairs when party politics and the national discourse stops our "leaders" (on either side) being able to openly call for a stop to bloodshed.

Just add it to the list of shameful things about the nation I suppose.
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There's some details missing in the OP. Namely that it's an SNP ammendment and Labour have tabled their own.

Voting for the SNP ammendment will be what gets his shadow ministers sacked.

But yes, people just go with the Telegraph headline.
 
bumface said:
So spineless that he's the only one who is brave enough to stand up for what's right even though he knows that he'll get crucified by the media for doing it.
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Of course a ceasefire is the right thing ultimately, but there was a ceasefire until Hamas broke it remember, no agreement will ever happen if both sides wont agree to one. The problem is that Hamas are on record as saying they want Israel gone in its entirety. They deny Israels right to exist.

The call for a pause allows time for aid, diplomacy has a window of opportunity. Hamas could withdraw and allow independent UN inspection for tunnels, underground HQ’s etc, The UN can look at Israel for any war crimes evidence (there seems plenty) as well as Hamas. A ceasefire has to have terms, the problem is how do you negotiate with a terror group. The Palestinians need a credible spokesperson(s) who will be seen as a serious leader to the UN, Israel and the people of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. All parties need to agree each others right to exist in peace, but whilst Iran (and possibly others like Hezbollah) egg Hamas on supply them with rockets and the like and get them to slaughter innocents a ceasefire achieves nothing.

What does Starmer calling for a ceasefire achieve in reality? He and Labour are not in power, they have no credible voice with Israel, Hamas, Iran or frankly anyone and wont have till power is achieved. Netanyahu is barely listening to anyone around the world it seems anyway. Hopefully he gets his day in court for his crimes mind.
 
Framing the question in terms of condemnation of Hamas, deliberately shifts the focus away from recognising the perpatrator of genocide, occupation and expulsion of the Palestinians from their lands - Israel. Considering he is allegedly a political marginal figure [an independent MP] there are many spineless willies in the "media" and elsewhere, who need a straw man to justifie their own arguments. Corbyn`s position on zionist occupation has been consistent since he became an MP along with his campaigning work and support for the South African Anti-Apartheid Movement. The spineless ones are all those who follow the well rehearsed script to support arming the occupation and giving it licence to kill with impunity.

The current situation in the Middle East vis-a-vis Israel has to be considered in terms of Israel being a nuclear power, armed to the teeth, supported entirely by the Western Establishment and allowed to murder with impunity and ignore International Law without any consequences whatsoever.
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An easier question is ... " Why wouldn't you want , and therefore vote , for any tabling of a ceasefire? "
If your answer is ' political strategy ' ... Then you, as an individual , chose not to vote for a suggested ceasefire when you had an opportunity
 
coluka said:
Of course a ceasefire is the right thing ultimately, but there was a ceasefire until Hamas broke it remember, no agreement will ever happen if both sides wont agree to one. The problem is that Hamas are on record as saying they want Israel gone in its entirety. They deny Israels right to exist.

The call for a pause allows time for aid, diplomacy has a window of opportunity. Hamas could withdraw and allow independent UN inspection for tunnels, underground HQ’s etc, The UN can look at Israel for any war crimes evidence (there seems plenty) as well as Hamas. A ceasefire has to have terms, the problem is how do you negotiate with a terror group. The Palestinians need a credible spokesperson(s) who will be seen as a serious leader to the UN, Israel and the people of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. All parties need to agree each others right to exist in peace, but whilst Iran (and possibly others like Hezbollah) egg Hamas on supply them with rockets and the like and get them to slaughter innocents a ceasefire achieves nothing.

What does Starmer calling for a ceasefire achieve in reality? He and Labour are not in power, they have no credible voice with Israel, Hamas, Iran or frankly anyone and wont have till power is achieved. Netanyahu is barely listening to anyone around the world it seems anyway. Hopefully he gets his day in court for his crimes mind.
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I've already told you that I'm not getting into all this again. Just read roofie and BBG and newyddion's posts on the other thread and pretend that it was me who typed them.
 
coluka said:
What does Starmer calling for a ceasefire achieve in reality? He and Labour are not in power, they have no credible voice with Israel, Hamas, Iran or frankly anyone and wont have till power is achieved. Netanyahu is barely listening to anyone around the world it seems anyway. Hopefully he gets his day in court for his crimes mind.
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It might show he wants a ceasefire??
And explains to people listening where they could place a vote in 12 months ish ?
 
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