If there was a General Election tomorrow...

Trug said:
I am a Labour Part member but I am not enamoured with Starmer. And the more I hear from him , Streeting, and Reeves, the less I like. The LP used to be a broad church but left wingers are increasingly being isolated.
If Starmer wins by the predicted landslide then he can enact any policy he likes. There would be no need of fearing the left. Don't be like the Tories who use their large majorities to feed only themselves. and use the large majority for the benefit of us all- go further than Blair did. However, I don't see that in the present LP. I will vote Labour though.
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Aye. I'm not optimistic but as a minimum we need to stop the bleeding and try and at least have something resembling grown ups running the country again. I think Labour can just about manage that as a minimum.

Definitely agree re: Streeting and Reeves.

I suppose we can always vote to remove them at the next election if they really are truly terrible. The worry is that happening and the tories meanwhile having lurched even further right.

Be a fun decision at the ballot box then. Cheery thought for a Friday afternoon. 😬

Country is ducked.
 
m3t4tr0n said:
I imagine we will get Paul back
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It’s a shame the residents of ingleby voted him out but I don’t think he’d get back in… we need someone people can relate to.. I thought he was the best MP we’ve had in a long time in the north east but Brexit did him…
 
I definitely will not vote conservative, however I live in a tory area.

What I really want to see is an alternative that I can get behind. Starmer, doesn't appear to express a strong position for fear of showing his hand, therefore comes across as a tory in disguise. Here in the South West Liberals are reclaiming some of there old areas, but this is just a protest as the best they can hope for is an alliance.

I am far more likely to look to emigrate especially if the tories get back in. I hear that Rwanda is nice.
 
Laughing said:
Thats not really what I am saying Specky. I am saying that Labour stand to loose a lot more than the green party by vowing to "eventually" rejoin the EU. It may well be enough to loose them the next election.

They can promise closer ties to the EU.

The Green Party won't loose an election with this as a stated aim, Labour would.

It simply isn't true that Labour will not eventually seek to rejoin the EU in some form or another, but there is a lot to unpick. We can't, for example be part of the cpttp and the Eu. i don't even suppose the green party has considered this, they don't have to. Labour will, eventually, propose customs union/single market, and to be honest I would be happy with that. They will do this when it is, politically, the right time. Right now today, if Labour announced we would be rejoining the EU plenty of voters, even those who would ideally never have left, would slap their forheads and think "here we go again". It would be a bad policy if you want to win an election.
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I think you and Starmer are failing to read the room. What the electorate know now that they didn't in 2019 is that Project Fear was actually Project Fact, i.e., Brexit is a fire in a skip full of used nappies. Electorates swing more quickly and more radically than they used to, and Starmer is a general fighting the last war.
 
speckyget said:
I think you and Starmer are failing to read the room. What the electorate know now that they didn't in 2019 is that Project Fear was actually Project Fact, i.e., Brexit is a fire in a skip full of used nappies. Electorates swing more quickly and more radically than they used to, and Starmer is a general fighting the last war.
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I don't disagree that brexit was crap. Polls show that a large percentage think it was the wrong decision. That's not the same as the majority wanting to go through the rejoin process and further falling out with family members who still believe in brexit and having a government paralysed whilst they negotiate a new rejoin deal.

You may not agree but there are more important things that need doing now not in 9 or 10 years. People are starving and freezing today.

I think you are missing the nuance. It's not about reading the room. Starmer will have very foccussed polling on rejoin v closer ties. We don't.
 
Laughing said:
You will have to be more specific, basing what on?
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What evidence do you have that Labour want to rejoin the EU?

"The Labour leader said there is “more that can be achieved across the board” between the UK and EU in a revised deal – on business, veterinary compliance, professional services, security, innovation, research and other areas. He ruled out rejoining the EU, the customs union and the single market."

www.theguardian.com

Labour will seek major rewrite of Brexit deal, Keir Starmer pledges

Party leader says he will pursue a closer trading relationship with the EU and much better terms for the UK than Boris Johnson managed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Never voted anything other than Labour in my life and not about to change now. Like many professionals I know, if this country returns a Tory party again my future will be emigration to somewhere warm.
 
Frozen Horse said:
What I don't understand about your position is acknowledging that it's an improvement, but also calling it same old. I think you're point is that it doesn't go far enough, but that's no reason not to vote for something you consider an improvement, is it? Plans for substantive change are no use at all unless said party can be elected?
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What I mean is, if I have other options, I would take them. For one, I think the leadership stance on a Gaza ceasefire was morally bankrupt and alone calls into question if I can support them (thats personal to me, I accept that). As I also said earlier, I am in a stone cold certain Tory hold - so I can afford to take the moral highground with my vote. If I was sat in Stockton South, I guess I would hold my nose.
 
WJH. said:
What evidence do you have that Labour want to rejoin the EU?

"The Labour leader said there is “more that can be achieved across the board” between the UK and EU in a revised deal – on business, veterinary compliance, professional services, security, innovation, research and other areas. He ruled out rejoining the EU, the customs union and the single market."

www.theguardian.com

Labour will seek major rewrite of Brexit deal, Keir Starmer pledges

Party leader says he will pursue a closer trading relationship with the EU and much better terms for the UK than Boris Johnson managed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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And he ruled it out for the reasons I gave. I don't believe for a minute that Labours end-game is, at a minimum, the customs union. I say this because it's obviously the right thing to do.

I have given the reasons previously why he has ruled out re-joining the EU.
 
Nano said:
Yes, it would be horrible if Labour moved to the left and tried helping people.

People like you, 100%. The people that will only vote when Labour will win by being in the centre. It makes no sense. That sort of position is worse than voting Tory every time. You are ensuring that only centre and right wing parties win which means the country is stuck centre right. Even if you wanted the country to be in the centre it would make far more sense to vote left wing because then the equilibrium point is in the centre. I don't know what sort of mental gymnastics you have to pull to convince yourself that you can't vote for a left wing Labour government but you do want things to improve. I can understand not liking Corbyn, the person, but his policies were there to actually improve things for the majority of people. You said "Any hint of a switch to the left by Labour would lose my vote." and I don't know what you expect anyone to take from that other than you don't like left-wing policies because that sentence has nothing to do with Corbyn.

If you aren't interested in left wing policies then what exactly do you want to see change when Labour win because it sounds to me a lot like you wanting Labour to just deliver Tory policy in a more competent manner?
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You really are a bit thick aren't you. People who only vote when Labour will win by being in the centre.
Do you know who Michael Foot was who Neil Kinnock is .Have you any idea about Labour history If you had you would realise the dates I voted Labour included voting for 2 left wingers just not Corbyn (both who lost one of them twice).
We will never make a difference unless we first get into power.
 
Blf said:
You really are a bit thick aren't you. People who only vote when Labour will win by being in the centre.
Do you know who Michael Foot was who Neil Kinnock is .Have you any idea about Labour history If you had you would realise the dates I voted Labour included voting for 2 left wingers just not Corbyn (both who lost one of them twice).
We will never make a difference unless we first get into power.
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No, I'm not thick actually. I understand that there is more nuance, that there is a difference between causation and correlation and that timing is important.

There are many reasons Foot, Kinnock and Corbyn lost and it can not be simplified into them being left.The Tories were at their strongest when Foot was in thanks to the Falklands war. Corbyn was starting from a massive deficit and fighting his own party as much as the opposition and then he lost to Brexit. There is a massive difference between rejecting the left and not rejecting the right and at that time, and over the last decade, Labour being left or right would have been irrelevant because the Tories were popular enough to win. Milliband and Brown were both centre right and didn't win either so why do you assume that it is the left that gets rejected?

You have fallen hook, mine and sinker for the right wing media propaganda that Labour can only be successful if they act like Tories. That is literally the right winning even when they aren't in power. They have fooled gullible idiots into thinking that things that will help people is a bad thing because rich people will get a smaller share and even apparent labour voters like yourself are stupid enough to believe them.

Thinking Starmer is someone that anyone would choose to vote for is just stupid. If he had been the leader at any of the previous elections he'd have lost them all. If he was Corbyn in a Starmer disguise he would be comfortably winning the next election. It is utter nonsense that only centre right Labour would be able to win the next election.

The facts are that the way the election system works and the variability in the situation at each election means that there aren't enough data points to determine whether the country would choose a left wing government.

"We will never make a difference unless we first get into power".

And what difference do you expect to make by only voting for someone that doesn't want to make a difference even when they have power? Starmer is the right wingers dream Labour leader. Someone who won't do any harm to the rich, a safe pair of hands for a few years until the Tories can distance themselves from the current shambles and muster up some credible politicians again.
 
Blf said:
You really are a bit thick aren't you. People who only vote when Labour will win by being in the centre.
Do you know who Michael Foot was who Neil Kinnock is .Have you any idea about Labour history If you had you would realise the dates I voted Labour included voting for 2 left wingers just not Corbyn (both who lost one of them twice).
We will never make a difference unless we first get into power.
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Possibly the most stupid thing I have read all week
 
It amazing how long Conservative governments always seem to end in sleaze/scandel - 1964 Porfumo, 1997 Hamiltons, Currie, MPs going to Prison etc, 2024 giving friends billions contracts for PPE, Useless Covid Apps, sexual assualts etc
 
Lets see, should I vote for a far right corrupt bunch thieving sexual deviants.

How about the others.

The Green Party in Teesside? after all the mess we`ve caused, funnily enough I've been party to that. I do like their manifesto.
I suppose another layer of insulation will just to say go on top of the 4 others.
35 hours free childcare for everyone.
Free Bus Transport for everyone under 22.
Water back in public hands.
Free School meals for all school children.

Some great vote catchers there, but I've a plane to catch.

I was never sent to a prep school or had the easy life wandering around South America campaigning, or doing anything but work. I did vote for someone like that last time.
I definitely wasn't an academic , I liked to make something with my hands something tangible , even if was just a mess or a noise.

I`m not a lover of some MPs, especially those with idiotic titles like Sir or Lord, however, Mr Starmer isn't perfect but he doesn't strike me as a lad who will be easily corrupted. Is that enough for me ?.

How about the Labour Party Values, do they suit me ? as nothing is going to change for a while and the shadow cabinet seem to have some very good MPs involved - Cooper, Lammy, Raynor, fair sort of people who have something good inside them and want us to progress etc.

I do understand it would be an extremely difficult time for the far right Brexit racist, seeing a Labour party in power, especially during these days of mortgage increases, super high legal immigration, their knuckles worn off and the price of rubber soled brown brogues.
Yes it must have taken a toll on them to say the least.
Especially as they were in the middle of seeing their favourite party destroy the NHS, perhaps its a life style choice by them.

I wouldn't imagine one term will shake up the world but its step towards better times.

I think I will vote Labour.
 
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