How desperate the Anti EV liars are getting

I believe that you are not seeing anti-EV diatribe, you are seeing the attempt from the Tories/RW to paint themselves as "The Motorist's Friend". They saw the reaction in Uxbridge at the By-Election against the extension of the ULEZ area (even though this was carried out on Johnson's timetable not a Labour one).

I am an occasional visitor to Pistonheads website, the announcement of the delay of ICE sales dealing to 2035 was treated as some sort of Antiwoke triumph by a few dyed in the wool petrol heads, when in actual fact it is a nonsense (manufacturers are already committed to the end of ICE production, so there will be almost no new ICE cars to buy by the end of 2030 despite what our Government may or may not do, they are not going to amend those production schedules for little old Blighty)
 
I believe that you are not seeing anti-EV diatribe, you are seeing the attempt from the Tories/RW to paint themselves as "The Motorist's Friend". They saw the reaction in Uxbridge at the By-Election against the extension of the ULEZ area (even though this was carried out on Johnson's timetable not a Labour one).

I am an occasional visitor to Pistonheads website, the announcement of the delay of ICE sales dealing to 2035 was treated as some sort of Antiwoke triumph by a few dyed in the wool petrol heads, when in actual fact it is a nonsense (manufacturers are already committed to the end of ICE production, so there will be almost no new ICE cars to buy by the end of 2030 despite what our Government may or may not do, they are not going to amend those production schedules for little old Blighty)
Yeah, this is what I figured.

We've only gone to 2035 for a headline, directly aimed at the right/ anti-woke and those afraid of technology. It won't win them any more votes mind, as they need more votes from the centre now, and that's not full of anti-woke/ far right fools.

The government tried to use parity with the EU as some sort of excuse, which is pathetic. The EU is clearly catering towards it's less well off nations with the 2035 date, and the more well of nations will be largely aiming for well before then.

Surely those who wanted us out of the EU, only wanted it as they thought we were "better" than the rest "rule brittania" etc, but we appear to be setting incredibly low ball targets, for what our supposed stature is meant to be.

Premium manufacturers know their market though, and they will be targeting the premium economies that have largely responsible governments (no the UK of course).

I note BMW stock is up 2.7% today, due to BEV sales, sales which are 79% up on last year.

 
The 20%-80% is old news I think, that was there to play it safe and protect batteries whilst they were figuring out long term health. They have the numbers now so they know exactly where they were at.

For me, on a longer trip, I would plan to get to a destination with min 10-20 miles range (depending on location) which for me is about 3-7%, and on a long trip I would just charge up to whatever made the most sense, whether that was 50%, 80% or 95%. I would rarely do 100% as the last 5-10% was slow on my old car. Wouldn't have any idea on the new car as never needed to push it in a year and a half. Charging over 80% won't cause the battery any damage that's noticeable, it's not worth worrying about unless you use superchargers every day and drive 300 miles a day.

I spend my week with my car on 30%-80% charge, I don't even think about it, and have zero idea what range is on the car now. I set the charge limit on 80% not because I need to for the battery, I just figure it can't do any harm (might help with residuals), and I don't need 250 miles of range, I don't even need 100 miles of range for 99% of my trips.
Ah yes, I know ti's old news as far as protecting the batteries goes. Heck the new LFP tesla batteries are supposed to be left at 100%

I guess I was just highlighting people don't understand charging speeds. And how to plan an efficient EV journey. Even now so many epole are saying "it takes over an hour to charge until full" as if this would hinder them on a trip. When it won't because, as we both know, you DON'T charge uo to full on a road trip. It's such a huge waste of your time
 
Yeah once every week or two is fine, doing that each day would be tough mind, but gotta do what you gotta do.

I think you would like the i4 like, who wouldn't. Neighbour's got a blue one and over the road has a grey one, and they both look class. They're both extremely happy with them too.
I was very very close to getting an i4, but decided to keep the Tesla for another year. It's a truly excellent vehicle. And if you like cars, it's probably the best driving EV out there, at least up there with the Taycan which (once you add thing like, wheels, is way more expensive)
 
..

If I had a mortgage I'd have bet it that that would be the point you'd pick up and ignore the rest

So, what about the 95% of the article re insurance, repairs, batteries then ?
I don't have any skin in the game here but two stats stood out for me:

"Insurers are also concerned about battery degradation and how to account for it in their policy costs. Most batteries have an expected lifespan of 10 to 20 years" - majority of cars kicking about are under that age.

Also a bit staying 9400 accidents now that affect batteries could be 260,000 by 2035. There's currently only 125k accidents a year in total at the moment based on a quick search.
 
"Insurers are also concerned about battery degradation and how to account for it in their policy costs. Most batteries have an expected lifespan of 10 to 20 years" - majority of cars kicking about are under that age.

Also a bit staying 9400 accidents now that affect batteries could be 260,000 by 2035. There's currently only 125k accidents a year in total at the moment based on a quick search.
What do insurers have to do with it ? Like any part, battery is a warranty issue not an insurance issue ? My real world experience is batteries in general are outperforming based on earlier fears.

And in regard to the accidents... 9400, could be 260000 ? What on earth kind of stat is that. Perhaps wording an issue there but that has made up scare stat stamped all the way through it
 
You need to show your working here. I got my costs direct from the vauchall website
How about clicking the link on the price in red on my post ? These are are direct link to the Vauxhall website for the EV. You seem to want an argument when I have posted facts and I am a EV user who loves my car and enjoy all its benefits but I am not blind to the facts of the upfront coat( I understand the cost saving of long term ownership)
 
How about clicking the link on the price in red on my post ? These are are direct link to the Vauxhall website for the EV. You seem to want an argument when I have posted facts and I am a EV user who loves my car and enjoy all its benefits but I am not blind to the facts of the upfront coat( I understand the cost saving of long term ownership)
No and I was pointing out you didn’t do the same for the ICE
 
No and I was pointing out you didn’t do the same for the ICE
No?

I posted the EV price only as you had already posted the price for the ice. ( did I ask you to show your working ? No I took your word for it and if I didn’t I could have checked myself)
I didn’t resort to call you a liar when you quoted £39995 but assumed you overlooked the correct price to compare like for like.
Enjoy your EV as I do mine , please try to have balanced debate in a open and respectful manner as my mum used to say you catch more bees with honey then vinegar.
 

No?

I posted the EV price only as you had already posted the price for the ice. ( did I ask you to show your working ? No I took your word for it and if I didn’t I could have checked myself)
I didn’t resort to call you a liar when you quoted £39995 but assumed you overlooked the correct price to compare like for like.
Enjoy your EV as I do mine , please try to have balanced debate in an open and respectful manner as my mum used to say you catch more bees with honey then vinegar.
I did show my working as it happened. I did both my calculations without the OTR. And the prices I quoted were correct.
That was my point. I could have calculated the OtR for both but it looked like you were just doing the OTR for one, which obviously would inflate the gap. Which was one of my points all along. I’ve never said EV aren’t more expensive than ICE. I’ve just said that gap as always exaggerated
 
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What do insurers have to do with it ? Like any part, battery is a warranty issue not an insurance issue ? My real world experience is batteries in general are outperforming based on earlier fears.

And in regard to the accidents... 9400, could be 260000 ? What on earth kind of stat is that. Perhaps wording an issue there but that has made up scare stat stamped all the way through it
That's what I was pointing out, two pieces of data that seemed questionable 👍
 
I did show my working as it happened. I did both my calculations without the OTR. And the prices I quoted were correct.
No they were not.
Hang fire. I looked on the vauxhall website. Find a cost of 39995 for the top of the range electric one and 34145 for the top of the range ICE.
If the OTR cost is higher then it'll be higher for both
these are the figures you quoted which are not like for like ( or as near as you can get for EV to ICE.
LinkPrice for ice Astra ultimate petrol ?(Automatic and most expensive Astra ICE car is £34165
Link PrIce for Astra ultimate EV is £43246
 
No they were not.

these are the figures you quoted which are not like for like ( or as near as you can get for EV to ICE.
LinkPrice for ice Astra ultimate petrol ?(Automatic and most expensive Astra ICE car is £34165
Link PrIce for Astra ultimate EV is £43246
My bad, I picked the GS not the ultimate. In my defence I was expecting the prices to by sorted in ascending order, not random!

Sorry about that
 
What do insurers have to do with it ? Like any part, battery is a warranty issue not an insurance issue ? My real world experience is batteries in general are outperforming based on earlier fears.

And in regard to the accidents... 9400, could be 260000 ? What on earth kind of stat is that. Perhaps wording an issue there but that has made up scare stat stamped all the way through it
It's not battery failure they're concerned about; it's damage to the battery in accidents. As I understand it they're not readily repairable. As such, relatively modest damage may result in battery write-offs at considerable expense. I've no idea if this is a well-founded fear - I came across it in an article the other day.
 
I was very very close to getting an i4, but decided to keep the Tesla for another year. It's a truly excellent vehicle. And if you like cars, it's probably the best driving EV out there, at least up there with the Taycan which (once you add thing like, wheels, is way more expensive)
Hi @SmallTown. A friend of mine has a Tesla on lease. She has had 4 punctures in 8 months. She has to take it to a place in Boro each time as part of the lease contract. The guys there say its because the car is so heavy causing nails and screws to penetrate the tyre easier. I mean, all cars are heavy but just wondered if you have found it a thing?
 
We have arrived. I believe the Mercedes EQS does that. In all honesty though you really don’t need that. You’re bound to stop once that length of a journey. I travel frequently in the opposite direction and need to charge for about 11 mins
Thanks, is there an affordable car which can do that sort of range though, I know there was a big battery Tesla approaching that range but those cars are out of my reach, I imagine this Merc will likely be the same?

I said 400 as I’m told you don’t get the full amount on the tin if you have pesky things like lights and the heaters on and I definitely need 320 miles door to door. Regarding stopping I actually don’t, I much prefer to just get there and the thought of stopping for half an hour to an hour at three in the morning doesn’t appeal.
 
EV
The cars are fantastic, except for the batteries.
Totally unsustainable in their current form.
Out of price for most folk.

They’d have been better of pumping all money and time into forming an engine the runs on water
 
Well at least we agree on some things, to a degree.

Buying quality is often better than buying cheap twice, but the quality does cost more most of the time. The trick is identifying if the additional quality is actually value, and there are laws of diminishing returns etc. But you can also get instances where the better option is cheaper still, like with the electric motor (100 year old tech) which costs less than a comparative engine, but they're far better for most applications. They have far less moving parts, more reliable, far more reactive, more efficient and far less to go wrong. The reason they were not used in moving vehicles prior was because we never had the tech to power them, but now we do. Been on trains for decades, as they effectively move along a grid, and can now go ludicrous speeds at far increased efficiency, and now cars are next. Don't think it will ever suit ships or flights longer than an hour or so, but who knows, tech always gets better and leaves previous tech behind.

Time is money, and sometimes it's worth paying slightly more to make better use of time, as it makes the returns better. Same with comfort and safety, somethings are worth a little extra cost, as you get more back in return. I could drive the same car for 50 years, and it might still work to a degree, but If I miss a meeting and lose a 200k job, then I've saved nothing. Then you get the opposite, like people paying 10x the price to fly 1st class, on a 10 hour flight. If your time isn't worth £500/hr, then the first class flight is probably not worth it, same with people spending a months wages on a business class flight, it's hard to make that make sense.

See, for a PC I couldn't get by with a 2008-2013, processor too slow, bus bandwith less, memory speed slower, processor architecture not making best use of current software which is important with things like CAD or complex calculations, and even things like having a 100 tabs open in chrome (which some do). Same applies to a laptop, my current one weighs <1kg, wasn't that expensive and knocks the socks off anything from 3-5 years ago, so the result is I take it to more places and use it more, to make better use of time. It pays for itself in no time. It's also far quieter and doesn't set my balls on fire.

Apple gear is good quality, but their operating system is where the value is, it's far more stable and secure than windows. I'm not used to it though, so I don't use it for a lap top or computer, but do use iPhones and iPads. You pay more for an apple device, but they hold value more. This enables me to have a new phone and iPad every couple of years for not a lot of money at all, they key is looking after what you will be later selling.

Ultimately it's all about what you want (or have) to spend (total), over the lifetime of the product, and what returns you get from that in quality, quality of life, financial returns, efficiency etc, people value each of those metrics differently and they should by product also. The more I spend on a product/ purchase, for personal use of for my company, the more time I spend drilling down into more and more detail. The more effort I put into it, the more accurate the cost/ value prediction is.
I guess it's how you perceive things and the mindset you adopt is where you're struggling. It's all about balance and what is deemed to be reasonable for most people. For instance, 99.9% aren't going to be driving a car that's 50 years old. But many of them will be driving one that's 3-10 years old which does exactly what they need it to. You're always going to the extremes, that's where you're going wrong.

My laptops perform more or less as well as modern ones for what is needed of them. I've compared and tested them. I accept that if you're using them for certain things, then a more recent one would be beneficial. But most people aren't using CAD, etc. Just out of interest - how does your recent laptop knock the socks off anything from 3 years ago? Because it weighs less than 1kg? I think that's probably where you're going wrong again.

I could keep going on - but my response was initiated by you questioning whether things can last 5 years. The clear answer to that is yes - and a whole lot longer.
 
Thanks, is there an affordable car which can do that sort of range though, I know there was a big battery Tesla approaching that range but those cars are out of my reach, I imagine this Merc will likely be the same?

I said 400 as I’m told you don’t get the full amount on the tin if you have pesky things like lights and the heaters on and I definitely need 320 miles door to door. Regarding stopping I actually don’t, I much prefer to just get there and the thought of stopping for half an hour to an hour at three in the morning doesn’t appeal.
Do you definitely need 320 miles though? How long would that take to drive? I mean they are cars that will do that but this is like one of those early anti ev conversations where the range someone thinks they need seems to be jsut past the range of an EV.

Trust me in this you don't need a 320 mile range. But there are plenty of cars that can achieve that anyway. BMW themselves make 3 different models capable of it. Polestar, Tesla, Ford...
 
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