Rebuild for next season

Bernieslavenschin said:
It's a bit more nuanced for me than to just dismiss the team as bottlers.
But I agree it was a golden chance.

All this 'we'll come back next season', and some of the type of 'I'd rather go up next season this season is too early' comments around this time of year make me cringe.
While we could well come back stronger, we only need a couple of recruitment decisions to go the wrong way and we're stuck on the back-end of a poor cycle for the next 5-6 years.
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Look at the recruitment we've done the last couple of windows. Hire a muppet like Garry monk and you will spend poorly and set the team back 4-5 years. We aren't doing that any more. We may well not do as well next season. The evidence suggests otherwise.
 
Bernieslavenschin said:
It's a bit more nuanced for me than to just dismiss the team as bottlers.
But I agree it was a golden chance.

All this 'we'll come back next season', and some of the type of 'I'd rather go up next season this season is too early' comments around this time of year make me cringe.
While we could well come back stronger, we only need a couple of recruitment decisions to go the wrong way and we're stuck on the back-end of a poor cycle for the next 5-6 years.
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On the flip side next season is the first time in 7 years our ffp isn’t impacted by the last massive recruitment failure. The summer of britt, fletcher et al is finally gone from our ffp calculations. Just those two players alone disappearing of our 3 year ffp window will release another 8m on our ffp calc, giving us wiggle room for some serious recruiting for carrick
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Look at the recruitment we've done the last couple of windows. Hire a muppet like Garry monk and you will spend poorly and set the team back 4-5 years. We aren't doing that any more. We may well not do as well next season. The evidence suggests otherwise.
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Sure, if I had to bet on it I'd back the current (recruitment) team to do well.

But it's still a gamble, even with the right team. Far better to take your chance when you have it (easy to say now).
My point is we need things to keep going in a positive direction for the 4 or 5 changes we need to make. They may well do (and did before under similar circumstances '14'15 season end). But it's a tall ask.
 
BoroMart said:
On the flip side next season is the first time in 7 years our ffp isn’t impacted by the last massive recruitment failure. The summer of britt, fletcher et al is finally gone from our ffp calculations. Just those two players alone disappearing of our 3 year ffp window will release another 8m on our ffp calc, giving us wiggle room for some serious recruiting for carrick
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Fair point.

As above, I trust the recruitment of the current setup.

Just understandably wished we'd taken the chance when we had it.
 
Glover_elbow said:
The thing that cost us promotion was the over reliance on howson who is still the heartbeat of the team losing him to injury cost us in the playoffs
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Agree

Davey_C said:
Where does dan barlaser fit into Carrick's plans? Not exactly the impact player we had hoped for
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Early days yet, Howson came in for stick when he moved here, I expect DB to improve over the next season after a full pre season with us.
Bernieslavenschin said:
While we could well come back stronger, we only need a couple of recruitment decisions to go the wrong way and we're stuck on the back-end of a poor cycle for the next 5-6 years
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While this could happen I feel we know who our successful loans were and we will at least get a couple back for next season.
Chuba is the problem for me, will the club cash in I hope not, I hope they go for it next season, he is worth more potentially playing for us next year then the 10-15 mill we will get through transfers. + You end up waisting the summer negotiating like we did with Spence, not knowing who you can buy or who we need.
 
Bernieslavenschin said:
Fair point.

As above, I trust the recruitment of the current setup.

Just understandably wished we'd taken the chance when we had it.
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I’m sure we all do, but as someone used to say “it is, what it is”. Our squad just wasn’t deep enough. I hope this is the end of our managerial philosophy flip-flipping because that’s hurt us. Muniz, crooks, Jones, Bola, Mowatt, Dijksteel they’re just not Carrick players and never will be. That’s about 25% of our squad that really don’t fit with how we play and are effectively holding us back from having strength in depth.

I’m hopeful that Carrick will use his contact book and Kieran unearths a couple of gems.
 
Akpom is 'apparently' already on 27k a week and one of our biggest earners. So how much more can we offer him? It's getting into the already 'too much' already for a champo club.
 
You say that but isn't Steffen on like 80k a week, dunno how much of that we're covering but even if it's half it's still a lot.
 
binghamered said:
Giles will be available I think. He is not good enough defensively for the premier league. Cost us tonight (don’t get me wrong big reason why we got in play offs). Steffen who takes him? Won’t be a premier league no1. Ramsey will certainly be available. But too injury prone? Big worry for me 2 years running very poor end to the season. Why do we run out of steam? Fear a poor start and carrick may struggle.
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I mean.. that would be great wouldn’t it!
 
The concern I have now is wondering whether Carrick benefited from a new manager bounce. We lost momentum towards the end of the season and haven't been able to recover from it.

It will be so important that we get off to a good start next season, because it could go the same way it did with Wilder if we pick up from where we left off.

As for the loan players, will there be many Premier League clubs interested in them? I think there may be one or two willing to take a punt on Archer because his stats whilst he's been here do make for good reading but as for the others, I'm not so sure.
 
I think "new manager bounce" is little more than a cliche and not actually a thing in practice. And if it was, I think there's a point where you'd have to see someone's doing a good job on their own merit, especially when still going strong about 7 months in to the job.
 
Otto42 said:
We’ll be better next season, maybe not automatic promotion better, but Carrick will have a full pre season and have his own players.
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If you look at his loyalty to Solksjaer in leaving Man U after the 3 games as caretaker then I'd expect him to be here next season. He wasn't appointed overnight and so I'd guess negotiations were detailed and the club knows what he expects and vice versa.
 
parmoboy said:
The concern I have now is wondering whether Carrick benefited from a new manager bounce. We lost momentum towards the end of the season and haven't been able to recover from it.

It will be so important that we get off to a good start next season, because it could go the same way it did with Wilder if we pick up from where we left off.

As for the loan players, will there be many Premier League clubs interested in them? I think there may be one or two willing to take a punt on Archer because his stats whilst he's been here do make for good reading but as for the others, I'm not so sure.
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New manager bounce - a couple of freakish wins followed by normal service being resumed?
We've improved massively. He has a calming organised influence and players and the team have improved under his management team. Injuries caused us to lose momentum.
 
It’s actually the last three seasons, four out of five if you go back to the last Pulis season that we have finished poorly.
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
New manager bounce - a couple of freakish wins followed by normal service being resumed?
We've improved massively. He has a calming organised influence and players and the team have improved under his management team. Injuries caused us to lose momentum.
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Hopefully you're right. I am a Carrick fan.

I'm not saying I believe that Carrick did benefit from a new manager bounce, more that the turnaround in form we had under Wilder is still fresh in my mind, and I hope that the same thing isn't going to happen to Carrick, although I accept there were other factors which contributed to Wilder's decline.

The encouraging thing is that I believe Carrick has the support of the dressing room. I liked what he said in his post-match interview, saying that it was sad that last night will have been the last time "the group" will have all been together, due to the group inevitably splitting up this summer after players leave. Such a refreshing contrast to Wilder, who spoke about wanting players with "attitude over ability" and said there would be a big clear out. Must have been great for team morale.
 
Disappointed on last nights result but happy with the overall turnaround and progress from the club after we got rid of wilder.
Go back to the karanka seasons and it was all about incremental improvements. It took him 3 seasons to get us up with progress every year.
We have made progress in the last 12 months in the fact that Now we have a coach and a recruitment set up that work.
I have confidence that we will be able to upgrade again this coming season.
That said I’d like to see Stefan and Giles back as they are fundamental to our style.
 
Its very early to speculate about next season but if we keep the same players together and loan the exact same players, what do you think we need to add to last nights squad?

Archer and Akpom were miles off the pace and I think we were crying out for another striker so that would be one position.

I see we were linked with Axel Tuanzebe recently whos out of contract in the summer, he would like us a more physical edge at centre back and maybe allow us to consider big money offers for Fry.

Tommy Smith has done well at full back but for the way we play id like a more attacking right back.

And maybe the most important position, out of all, Howson was a huge loss last night and he's so integral to how this team plays. I expect him back next season but he can't go on forever at his age. I'd love a big physical box to box midfielder to replace/rotate with Howson.

If we keep Carrick and can get most of the loanees back we won't be miles off, I think last night we maybe lacked a bit of a physical edge, address that and we might also start finally threatening teams from set pieces. Strengthen a couple of other positions and we'll be up there again.
 
BoroMart said:
On the flip side next season is the first time in 7 years our ffp isn’t impacted by the last massive recruitment failure. The summer of britt, fletcher et al is finally gone from our ffp calculations. Just those two players alone disappearing of our 3 year ffp window will release another 8m on our ffp calc, giving us wiggle room for some serious recruiting for carrick
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So you advocate 'serious recruiting', which is potentially going to lead to the same FFP problems in 2024, 2025 and onwards?

Selling Akpom is the way to fund new players.
 
Selling Akpom leaves a 30 goal hole who else would fill that. Saying that he was going to leave last summer and if he did no one would have really cared.

I think both a combination of a small squad a lot of games have caught up with us. I think Stoke was the turning point. We fought tooth and nail to claw back Sheff Utd when we were about to do so the inconsistency kicked in.

We do need a plan b etc but where we were in October to even be pushing for automatic promotion at the business end is some achievement. UTB!!!!!!!
 
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