The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
I can’t believe you got Cl*gg through the swear filter. Bigger Sh!tbag than Starmer.Worked out well for Clegg.
I can’t believe you got Cl*gg through the swear filter. Bigger Sh!tbag than Starmer.Worked out well for Clegg.
Then don’t make uncosted commitments. Or ‘pledges’ you have no intention of keeping. Not difficult.I'm asking how you (or anyone who believes similarly to you really) believe Labour could keep to pledges to spend £100s of billions on policy promises, as that is the basis of the attacks on Starmer dropping them.
Printing money in such large scales for the sole purpose of policy purchase will causes rapid inflation, it will shock the markets and shatter confidence, unless there's sufficient growth to match and we currently have none. Labour cannot go into the next election on that gamble, they would be slaughtered.
Right now, Labour are going to find it hard to convince people they can afford to raise money to fund the NHS. Nevermind any sort of other pledge.
And don't be ridiculous, I was asking if you would support paying higher taxes to fund the pledge as a whole. Not on you personally.
Nothing "scaremongering" about it. Its not rhetoric. Its an observation of the direction the ideology Starmer represents and where its at. His record when DPP, his record in expulsions and removal of democracy in the Labour Party, his lies and broken promises to those who elected him as leader, his use of language to appeal to base instincts and sanctioning of material which accuses a senior politician of supporting child sex abusers, is abhorrent. Its symptomatic of where his political loyalties lie. His progressive move rightwards in support of further limits on rights and freedoms cant be swept under the carpet. To deny the truth to get elected is criminal. If we have to cover up lies for a politician to get elected, its a dangerous road to go down.No offence roofie1, but that is a massive leap and scaremongering imho. That rhetoric will turn people away and want to stick with the tories if they were undecided. We all have to live under rule, it is a fact of life and thank goodness we do. I accept there are balances in freedoms, but suggesting Starmer wants to remove freedoms and rule as some sort of a tin pot authoritarian dictator will have the tories rubbing their hands with glee.
Not to mention, this Government has paid the private train operating companies for every day there has been a strike. They continue to subsidise private shareholders in France, Germany, Holland [etc] in order for those franchisers to operate and maintain their profits. Meanwhile we pay the highest fares in Europe for a creaking Victorian second class railway system. The money is there - its just leaving the country and has been since our railways were given away to private profiteers.Wheres 100s of billions come from? Your first question to me was re: railways and I pointed out at the start you simply wait for the franchises to end and then run them from there. Getting rid of tuition fees isn't 100s of billions either.
Yeah sure I'd be willing to pay more income tax in return for living in a better country. Why not?
Wheres 100s of billions come from? Your first question to me was re: railways and I pointed out at the start you simply wait for the franchises to end and then run them from there. Getting rid of tuition fees isn't 100s of billions either.
Yeah sure I'd be willing to pay more income tax in return for living in a better country. Why not?
Then don’t make uncosted commitments. Or ‘pledges’ you have no intention of keeping. Not difficult.
ALL of them Chris? Really? And how about his recent ambiguous prevarications on the defo ruin of a woman?How to you know he had no intention on keeping them when he made them?
Things have changed quite a bit since he made the pledges, unless you think he should've been able to predict those changes aswell?
How to you know he had no intention on keeping them when he made them?
Things have changed quite a bit since he made the pledges, unless you think he should've been able to predict those changes aswell?
I agree the personal attacks were abhorrent and ill advised. I have no doubt you had no intention to scaremonger either. I just think if the ordinary jacks and Jills of the UK were to come across your post and comments like it, it would have that effect. Most voters in the country are not politically ideolistic, they care about their income source, a roof over their heads and food on the table, some of the lucky ones will care about affording a holiday or running a car too and they will more than likely be afraid of change. They have seen life get harder under the tories but Sunak is portrayed as a Mr nice guy who is an economic safe pair of hands trying to do his best on inflation, immigration and looking after the family silver. If they see Starmer being lied about by the tories and see a section of the traditional Labour party supporters attacking him too, what do you think will happen? Where will their vote go, if indeed they vote, abstention is an assist for the tories in truth as things stand.Nothing "scaremongering" about it. Its not rhetoric. Its an observation of the direction the ideology Starmer represents and where its at. His record when DPP, his record in expulsions and removal of democracy in the Labour Party, his lies and broken promises to those who elected him as leader, his use of language to appeal to base instincts and sanctioning of material which accuses a senior politician of supporting child sex abusers, is abhorrent. Its symptomatic of where his political loyalties lie. His progressive move rightwards in support of further limits on rights and freedoms cant be swept under the carpet. To deny the truth to get elected is criminal. If we have to cover up lies for a politician to get elected, its a dangerous road to go down.
Exactly.Chris the changes started within a week of Starmer becoming leader. It wasn't some unavoidable response to events, it was a very evident bait and switch.
I wasnt being "idealistic" or suggesting only white angels and virgins should be in politics. Its also important to recognise that "politics" isnt just about the narrow walls of Westminster. Politics starts and ends in the street. But thats another discussion.I agree the personal attacks were abhorrent and ill advised. I have no doubt you had no intention to scaremonger either. I just think if the ordinary jacks and Jills of the UK were to come across your post and comments like it, it would have that effect. Most voters in the country are not politically ideolistic, they care about their income source, a roof over their heads and food on the table, some of the lucky ones will care about affording a holiday or running a car too and they will more than likely be afraid of change. They have seen life get harder under the tories but Sunak is portrayed as a Mr nice guy who is an economic safe pair of hands trying to do his best on inflation, immigration and looking after the family silver. If they see Starmer being lied about by the tories and see a section of the traditional Labour party supporters attacking him too, what do you think will happen? Where will their vote go, if indeed they vote, abstention is an assist for the tories in truth as things stand.
I admire to some degree people having ideological hopes and visions it is their absolute right, but the truth staring everyone in the face is 5 more years of Sunak or 5 years of Starmer who can at least make a start on righting some wrongs of the last 12 yrs. I would urge all those that do not like Starmer to abide by the many messages folk said to me under Corbyns leadership, and consider the reality of another term of tory rule. I held my nose and did the right thing, I hope people will take their own advice to me in 2019 otherwise it would be somewhat hypocritical for them not to.
Colour me shocked......
Labour set to ditch pledge for free university tuition, Starmer says
Sir Keir Starmer said his party was "likely to move on" from its previous policy of scrapping fees.www.bbc.co.uk
You'll end up with another 5 years of Tory if Starmer wins the next election.I would have thought the Starmer haters who have jumped on this would have done so back in January when it was openly discussed:
It’s multiple choice time for ruthless Starmer: will he retain or scrap tuition fees? | Gaby Hinsliff
As the state of education comes under scrutiny, Labour’s leader faces some hard choices over the promises he made in 2020, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliffwww.theguardian.com
But hey, that one didn’t get much coverage.
Let’s not forget what was actually reported though, which as usual, has been totally bypassed by the haters:
“He added that the current fees system, of £9,250 a year, was "unfair" and "doesn't work for students, and doesn't work for universities".”
So basically he’s arguing that the Tories have trashed the economy (true) and as such the economic landscape has shifted considerably. Does he carry on with a plan that is now unaffordable? Or does he try to make the system fairer within the current wrecked fiscal landscape?
Reading on here it seems that everyone wants him to whip out the magic money tree and SPEND SPEND SPEND! Seriously, have a word with yourselves - you will just end up with another 5 years of Tory at this rate
No offence roofie1, but that is a massive leap and scaremongering imho. That rhetoric will turn people away and want to stick with the tories if they were undecided. We all have to live under rule, it is a fact of life and thank goodness we do. I accept there are balances in freedoms, but suggesting Starmer wants to remove freedoms and rule as some sort of a tin pot authoritarian dictator will have the tories rubbing their hands with glee.
You'll end up with another 5 years of Tory if Starmer win the next election.
I`de give you some credence and respect your point of view if you allowed democratic debate and discourse - even if you dont agree with it.It wasn’t scaremongering, it was just b0ll0x
Was she wearing her R2D2 shoes when she said that?“It's been nine years since the Lib Dems betrayed students over tuition fees, don't let them fool you again. Labour will be different. We have pledged to abolish tuition fees. We mean it, I will be honoured to deliver this pledge in government.”
Angela Rayner MP, 9th December 2019.