Diane Abbott

Andy_W said:
As for what Stu said, again, I wouldn't really count that as sabotage from your example. It's like if the coach says, "look lads, we're 5-0 down, lets just call it a day eh?", and then criticising some of the other players who go against orders and actually want to try and reverse the result by going in a different direction. Sure it's going against orders, but play to win etc. You have to crack an egg to make an omlette etc.
Click to expand...
No. They actively sabotaged by moving funds from marginals into well held seats. It was a deliberate tactic to make it harder for 'the team' to win.

As a football analogy it's being 5-0 up and then having someone score 6 own goals deliberately.
 
Scrote said:
She has since claimed she sent the wrong draft but for something that sensitive you'd think she'd have checked and double-checked.
Click to expand...
This just makes it worse.

If she wrote that as a draft, it clearly shows her line of thinking. People often write what they think, and then correct it to appeal to others, but the problem there is what she actually thinks, it's not right. It's the same with the closet racists etc, they're still racists even if they don't shout about it.

It's like she actually thought about what she was saying, and still sent it, or she's inept enough to send the wrong document, never mind checking what she's doing.

Very poor thoughts on the subject, and very poor document control.
 
Scrote said:
No. They actively sabotaged by moving funds from marginals into well held seats. It was a deliberate tactic to make it harder for 'the team' to win.

As a football analogy it's being 5-0 up and then having someone score 6 own goals deliberately.
Click to expand...
When? Which elections? Any links?

So why did they also lose so many supposed red wall seats or easy seats?

Maybe they were concerned about losing key seats, polls always have a degree of uncertainty etc.

I don't recall Labour ever being an equivalent of 5-0 up, I don't think they've even been ahead, probably not in the last 15 years (other than since Starmer came in of course).
 
Scrote said:
No. They actively sabotaged by moving funds from marginals into well held seats. It was a deliberate tactic to make it harder for 'the team' to win.

As a football analogy it's being 5-0 up and then having someone score 6 own goals deliberately.
Click to expand...

I'll take a stab at the football analogy if everyone else is.

Its like the players deliberately getting the team relegated two years in a row because they don't like the manager. And then you get fans like Andy saying they did the right thing because in pre season the bookies have us odds on for league 2 playoffs.
 
Its truly terrible what happened to millions of West African people transported to the Americas as slaves, but horrendous things were also done to other working class people who were not from West Africa.

Irish people killled on Coffin ships from Ireland to USA/Canada on forced transportation (cargo ships) from land clearances

English slaves transported to the West Indies, say prisoners after the Battle of Sedgemoor. Most died because of the tropical climate and conditions.

Scottish slaves after the Jacobite Rebellions, if they had survived imprisonment in the UK or hanging for treason.

Transportation of chained convicts to Australia, some offences included belonging to a trade union.

Serfdom still existed in Russia till 1861 with around 18 million Russians privately owned by other Russians.
 
SuperStu said:
I'll take a stab at the football analogy if everyone else is.

Its like the players deliberately getting the team relegated two years in a row because they don't like the manager. And then you get fans like Andy saying they did the right thing because in pre season the bookies have us odds on for league 2 playoffs.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to 2019?

The team got knocked out the Champions League in 2016 when the clowns in both parties let the people get conned into voting us out of the EU. Never got in the champions league in 2017 and then did a Spurs all the way up to 2019.

Seem to be on a better path now though, to actually winning something.

Anyway, no more from me on this, don't want to derail the thread anymore. Abott needed to go before this, Corbyn should have got rid of her, but now she's certainly got rid of herself.
 
Andy_W said:
If she wrote that as a draft, it clearly shows her line of thinking.
Click to expand...
Assuming she's telling the truth then it makes sense in terms of the original article she was responding to (link below).

There is a train of thought whereby "racism" is only defined as 'white-passing people oppressing black-passing people'. It's where the 'hierarchy of racism' arguments stem from (and why Corbyn was also criticised from the other end of it when he used the "and all other forms of racism" line).

If that is the definition you're using then it shifts the argument as to what racism actually is (i.e. it isn't just being prejudiced there has to be the extra element of lighter-skin vs darker-skin).

In this context a white-jew can't experience racism - just prejudice.

As with the trans debate it comes down to being very precise with the definitions you're using in your argument. I'm guessing the second draft will have included this, which would make the letter a lot less contentious.

Original article

The letter:
1682253311084.png
 
Andy_W said:
When? Which elections? Any links?
Click to expand...
Labour Leaks document.
Forde Report.
Al-Jazeera documentary.

If you haven't bothered to even see what they're about then it's not worth the effort even trying to discuss any of this with you.

Labour Leaks made the accusation with evidence.

The Forde Report (commissioned by Starmer) accepted that the accusation was true, based on the evidence gathered.

The documentary showed how the truth had been twisted and tried to explain why by speaking to the people actually involved.
 
Sexpom said:
She’s had the whip suspended for saying “Jews don’t face racism” they apparently face the same prejudices as redheads.

How this woman is even still part of the Labour Party after her gaffes during the last election campaign is beyond me. She really is thick.
Click to expand...

She's done Starmer a massive favour here. She was the last of the characters that the Tories could wheel out that would rile up the Red Wall.
 
Andy_W said:
When? Which elections? Any links?
Click to expand...
Are you the only person not to be aware of the Labour leaks. The labour right sabotaged the 2017 GE whilst the NEC under McNicol ignored hundreds of complaints about anti-Semitism that they were supposed to be dealing with, instead trawling facebook for minor infractions from Corbyn supporters and diverting funds (without the knowledge of the leadership) from marginal seats to dead certs, even secretly setting up a seperate office to do this.
 
Scrote said:
Labour Leaks document.
Forde Report.
Al-Jazeera documentary.

If you haven't bothered to even see what they're about then it's not worth the effort even trying to discuss any of this with you.

Labour Leaks made the accusation with evidence.

The Forde Report (commissioned by Starmer) accepted that the accusation was true, based on the evidence gathered.

The documentary showed how the truth had been twisted and tried to explain why by speaking to the people actually involved.
Click to expand...
I've not read the leaks, and I'm not going to (it's like 1000 pages), but I've read most of the Forde report a while back, as this seems to make the most sense to concentrate on, as it covers the leaks.

As for Labour leaks and Forde report( (which covers it), the culture within Labour was clearly terrible and badly organised, but it was on all sides, neither side wanted to listen to the other, and back then they had absolutely zero chance of winning, unless being on relatively the same page. Ultimately the leadership chain is at fault for allowing this to happen or facilitating it, and that buck stops with the guy at the top.

The forde report said the various sides influenced decisions, but it was bad both ways, but sides favoured their side, rather than the election win. From what I remember, neither of the factions wanted to lose the election and didn't work to that on the whole, they were just more prioritising their side. In either case, the report said it had little influence on the actual result of the election.

The right folk didn't want the party going too far left as they never thought it could win, and the left folk wanted to move away from the right (who they couldn't win without), they're both entitled to think what they want, but back then they couldn't win without each other, as then need each other plus some more votes from the Tories. This still applies, and is seemingly going to cause problems with voters again, do a degree.

The report is clearly good work, and its helped move Labour in the right direction and enabled the party to try and work towards the same aim, and Starmer's been much better at removing those who don't want to be a part of that.

But, why did it take a leak for this to all come out, why didn't Corbyn realise this and get a grip on it sooner?

I didn't watch the Al Jazeera documentary, as I don't believe they're reliable/ neutral.
 
Last edited:
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Are you the only person not to be aware of the Labour leaks. The labour right sabotaged the 2017 GE whilst the NEC under McNicol ignored hundreds of complaints about anti-Semitism that they were supposed to be dealing with, instead trawling facebook for minor infractions from Corbyn supporters and diverting funds (without the knowledge of the leadership) from marginal seats to dead certs, even secretly setting up a seperate office to do this.
Click to expand...
Aware, not read them though, but have read most of the Ford report which covers it and labours' problems (which there were lots of).

The post above probably describes it enough.

Interesting how you don't point any of these problems at the leadership though, and that both factions were working against each other, and how both effectively knew they were onto a loss when the election was called (which is understandable). Most of the gain in Labour votes between the Tories calling the election and the election happening were largely down to Tory **** ups, obviously, the Tory campaign was also terrible, yet still won.
 
Andy_W said:
As for Labour leaks and Forde report( (which covers it), the culture within Labour was clearly terrible and badly organised, but it was on all sides, neither side wanted to listen to the other, and back then they had absolutely zero chance of winning, unless being on relatively the same page. Ultimately the leadership chain is at fault for allowing this to happen or facilitating it.

The forde report said the various sides influenced decisions, but it was bad both ways, but sides favoured their side, rather than the election win. From what I remember, neither of the factions wanted to lose the election and didn't work to that on the whole, they were just more prioritising their side.
Click to expand...

:ROFLMAO::rolleyes: made up nonsense as usual. Why pretend you've read something you clearly haven't?
 
Andy_W said:
From what I remember, neither of the factions wanted to lose the election and didn't work to that on the whole, they were just more prioritising their side. In either case, the report said it had little influence on the actual result of the election.
Click to expand...
Then your memory doesn't serve you well. The right (Kinnock and co) were visibly distraught when the results were coming in.
Andy_W said:
I didn't watch the Al Jazeera documentary, as I don't believe they're reliable/ neutral.
Click to expand...
You can dismiss something without looking at it if you wish, but the Al Jazeera documentaries contain a lot of footage from hidden cameras, one showing Labour MP Joan Ryan, making a false accusation of anti-Semitism and also showing her discussing with Shai Masot, a senior political officer at the Israeli embassy in London, a £1m slush fund that she had been offered
 
The thing a lot of people can’t seem to comprehend is that Judaism is a religion, race and ethnicity.

Antisemitism transcends religious intolerance. It is on the rise across the globe. Do you think an atheist Jew would escape the wrath of the Charlottesville white supremacists?
 
Perhaps if Corbyn hadn't ignored the vote of confidence that he lost (comprehensively by 80%) after the 2016 GE...
 
Andy_W said:
I've not read the leaks, and I'm not going to (it's like 1000 pages), but I've read most of the Forde report a while back, as this seems to make the most sense to concentrate on, as it covers the leaks.

As for Labour leaks and Forde report( (which covers it), the culture within Labour was clearly terrible and badly organised, but it was on all sides, neither side wanted to listen to the other, and back then they had absolutely zero chance of winning, unless being on relatively the same page. Ultimately the leadership chain is at fault for allowing this to happen or facilitating it, and that buck stops with the guy at the top.

The forde report said the various sides influenced decisions, but it was bad both ways, but sides favoured their side, rather than the election win. From what I remember, neither of the factions wanted to lose the election and didn't work to that on the whole, they were just more prioritising their side. In either case, the report said it had little influence on the actual result of the election.

The right folk didn't want the party going too far left as they never thought it could win, and the left folk wanted to move away from the right (who they couldn't win without), they're both entitled to think what they want, but back then they couldn't win without each other, as then need each other plus some more votes from the Tories. This still applies, and is seemingly going to cause problems with voters again, do a degree.

The report is clearly good work, and its helped move Labour in the right direction and enabled the party to try and work towards the same aim, and Starmer's been much better at removing those who don't want to be a part of that.

But, why did it take a leak for this to all come out, why didn't Corbyn realise this and get a grip on it sooner?

I didn't watch the Al Jazeera documentary, as I don't believe they're reliable/ neutral.
Click to expand...
If you dont watch something because you dont believe something is "reliable" - how do you know?
Are you afraid to challenge yourself or just prepared to swallow the propaganda of rich oligarchs who control so-called "main-stream-media"?

Download the Forde Report in full here:>>>>>>>>>>>

 
Granville Bennett said:
Antisemitism transcends religious intolerance. It is on the rise across the globe. Do you think an atheist Jew would escape the wrath of the Charlottesville white supremacists?
Click to expand...
I think the point that Abbott was trying to make (badly) is that many Jews can walk along the street and no one would know they are Jewish. Its a tenuous point at best and given the recent history of the Labour Party one that would be best left unuttered.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top