Shamima Begum

takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
 
Redka said:
takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
Click to expand...
Yes we did. Along with poor James himself.
 
bumface said:
There as some really mad b@stards on this thread. I did loads of terrible things when I was fifteen. I guess that we should probably send me to prison and throw away the key, or strip me of my citizenship and boot me out of the country.
Click to expand...
Not for anything you did, just for having a bum for a face :)
 
Redka said:
takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
Click to expand...
Shows the utter desperation of your bigotry that you try and tie Shemima Begum with the killers of James Bulger. They have zero in common.
I actually feel sorry for you.
 
Redka said:
takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
Click to expand...

So, by this logic, anyone who has committed a horrible crime should just be stripped of citizenship and dumped on another country?

It's totally irrelevant as to what crime has been committed or if she's guilty or hates the country, she is our responsibility to bring to justice if she's guilty of a crime and allow due process and a fair trial to take place.

This is a politician playing politics and setting a dangerous precedent in doing so. We are supposed to be better than this.
 
Chris_Boro said:
So, by this logic, anyone who has committed a horrible crime should just be stripped of citizenship and dumped on another country?

It's totally irrelevant as to what crime has been committed or if she's guilty or hates the country, she is our responsibility to bring to justice if she's guilty of a crime and allow due process and a fair trial to take place.

This is a politician playing politics and setting a dangerous precedent in doing so. We are supposed to be better than this.
Click to expand...
I agree but there are two elements to this debate - the citizenship issue - I agree with you on taht.

Then the crimes Isis members have murdered hundred, thousands but we are forgiving shaming begum because she is a child who was influenced by adults.
 
zzzzz said:
Shows the utter desperation of your bigotry that you try and tie Shemima Begum with the killers of James Bulger. They have zero in common.
I actually feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...
Ehhh? Not sure how you made that leap.

She was a member of ISIS.
 
Redka said:
I agree but there are two elements to this debate - the citizenship issue - I agree with you on taht.

Then the crimes Isis members have murdered hundred, thousands but we are forgiving shaming begum because she is a child who was influenced by adults.
Click to expand...

We have no idea to the level she was influenced, that is what a fair trial would determine, instead we get shameful options that demean our society.

She was a child and the state failed in its duty of care to protect its citizens from radical influance, we don't get to simply wash our hands of responsibility as a nation.
 
Redka said:
I agree but there’s not a single shred of empathy for the killers is there? Yet what they did is murder the same as what ISIS members commit.
Click to expand...
Its not that black and white though. Shemima joined a terrorist organisation that was known to kill thousands of people, but she herself did not (as far as I know) kill anyone. The JB killers actively went out looking to torture someone and poor James ended up in the firing line.

The JB killers needed the same support Shemima does, neither of them got it and ultimately both made bad decisions because of it. JB's killers get very little empathy because they actively went looking to kill, Shemima didn't. She wanted to join ISIS for a better life and the brainwashing that went with it, she wasn't an active participant in the deaths.

I know that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, but there is an incredible amount of nuance and context that needs to be considered when making comparisons like this.
 
Chris_Boro said:
We have no idea to the level she was influenced, that is what a fair trial would determine, instead we get shameful options that demean our society.

She was a child and the state failed in its duty of care to protect its citizens from radical influance, we don't get to simply wash our hands of responsibility as a nation.
Click to expand...
I agree with your second paragraph.
We maybe further apart on what crimes she has committed and the sympathy towards her. She was a member of ISIS and we can say on the balance of probability she’s probably been involved in some pretty horrific stuff. I’m less forgiving of that.
 
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