Your tightest friend

Andy_W said:
What's wrong with some people, I don't get it, that's like taking pride in effectively robbing a waitress, who is probably skint? They might as well go outside and take the coat off a homeless guy whilst they're at it.

It's like when I've been to the USA and some people I've been with don't tip as they "don't believe in it", but by not tipping they're effectively saying they do believe in the company they visit, paying their staff $3 an hour. And that by not tipping they're subjecting the whole group to looking like assholes. I've got zero time for anyone like that, and I'll actively tell them, and then make sure the staff, everyone at our table and adjacent tables know about it too.
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Or, and apologies in advanced for the radically socialist undertones of this suggestion, the f*cking owners of the business could pay their staff a living wage. God forbid.
 
festa5 said:
Also a tense moment if you spot a few arrive just as you're being served. A race against time to complete the transaction and be stepping away from the bar before they get there. 😬
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Baller move if you stop the bar keep and get their drinks added on to the order though. Even them returning the round doesn't really match the gesture.
 
Andy_W said:
Where is he based? The UK I assume?

It's not as straightforward as you think it is, a house isn't always an asset, especially when you're starting off, it's a liability if you're buying it with a mortgage. People getting their first set of keys thinking they own their own house, that's "worth" 10x their annual wages is one of the biggest misconceptions in the world. All they own is a 30-year debt. Just because everyone does it, doesn't mean it's correct or efficient.

The average UK house price was 215k in 2016, in May 2020 it was 230k, but with inflation that 230k should be nearer 240k if houses were tracking it. If his wages have gone up with inflation, then the average house he would buy now is actually effectively cheaper at 230k than it was at 215k. That matches what he would have paid off his "asset". If he's been renting for less than his mortgage would have been, then he's even better off.

Then with Brexit around the corner, and a delayed covid impact there could easily be a 10-20% price drop coming so that 230k could easily go below 200k. The economic forecast is bad for the UK, there are droves of people leaving and the birth rate is low (and has been low for a long time, and is miles lower than previous years which helped drive the property boom).

You should never criticise someone for saving, especially when their main reason they're saving is in line with what most investors believe (that brexit is going to cause a mess), and you also have covid that is going to amplify that.

Keeping his money in the bank was his worst choice (if that's what he's done), the saving and not buying was a sound choice (and will become evident over the next year or so).
Spending hours to save £1 on a shirt is also a bad choice.
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He's looking in South Manchester.

In 2016, he could have bought a 3 bed house in Northenden or wherever for roughly £200k, with £160k of mortgage. He's since paid roughly £35k in rent and saved an extra £20k. If he'd bought, rather than dithered, he'd be sat in a house worth roughly an extra £30k, have paid off £35k of equity and still have saved his £20k.

So even if house prices drop to their 2016 level, he's still out of pocket for all the rent he's paid while some landlord has done b***r all and gotten rich off his hard work. And he's had to deal with letting agents and all the other **** that comes with renting.

I can't see the future, but I do know that given how much of this country's economy is tied up in house prices, the gov will do absolutely everything it can to stop them falling significantly.
 
Artie Fufkin said:
probably because you're paid for everything in your job description, a description you accepted the role and its remuneration for. Tipping is for those who provide extra to just plonking your plate in front of you: they might recommend dishes on the menu, a good wine to accompany it, take your coat for you, respond to your additional requests, book a taxi for you when ready to leave, etc. those aren't usually specified in the job description of waiting staff and so it is both customary and courteous to pay slightly extra for, and only on a voluntary basis. I won't eat anywhere that includes a service charge as soon as I've sat down, or if I do go somewhere like that, I ask for the service charge to be removed. Never had that request denied, they accept it, if they want my custom that is
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Surely the bigger issue with society has to be these restaurant owners getting away with paying their staff nothing and expecting customers who are already paying for a meal to subsidise their wages. Not that I would never tip because it always seems like the expected thing to do, but the concept of it just seems wrong to me
 
JM14 said:
Surely the bigger issue with society has to be these restaurant owners getting away with paying their staff nothing and expecting customers who are already paying for a meal to subsidise their wages. Not that I would never tip because it always seems like the expected thing to do, but the concept of it just seems wrong to me
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Agree with that, the differences between here and the US though are huge, that's just the way it is, wrongly in my view. A fair day's work for a fair day's pay should be the accepted norm, but it isnt, more so there than here. I know bartenders, good ones, in NY that get paid a very modest wage, but earn a small fortune in tips because they are so simply brilliant at what they do. Its not quite so 'extreme' over here, but good waiting staff deserve a bonus wherever you serve. A decent wage to begin with would be better though
 
I really don’t like the kitty system. It’s always suggested by someone who ends up spending some of it on extra drinks for themselves or the bandits. Before you know it, you’ve spent £30 on four pints and they want everyone to put more in.

I’ve had mates who will buy single measures for their round when everyone has been on doubles. One lad often doesn’t get himself a drink on his round to save a few quid. He has even tried to get away with buying just the mixers towards the end of the night too.

The same lads will always tap you on the shoulder just as you’re about to get served and ask you to get them drinks or shots so they don’t have to queue. Then when it’s time to get you one back, they’re just going to the loo or out for a cigarette and want you to go to the bar for them.
 
What happens if everyone in the group is tight. Some sort of stand off and everyone goes home sober!

I hate it when it’s someone’s round and they get a mystery/excuse phone call ‘sorry lads one of the boys has fallen out of the bunk bed got to dash!!! Following week it’s another crisis’
or they need to get the last train. Annoying!
 
Remember when I worked in Nottingham. Six of us used to go out for a pint and one lad, Duncan, was always the last one getting the round in. Sometimes he missed out altogether. Anyway the rest of us cottoned on so one night when we walked into this pub, as we reached the bar we all took one step back leaving Duncan at the front. “You’re round Duncan”. He finally took the hint!
 
My brother once text me to say he was in the pub if I fancied an afternoon drink. I was busy but said I’d pop in for one. When I arrived there was a pint on the bar waiting for me. I was driving and just literally popped in. I had my pint and a chat, and then had to leave. My brother then sternly said “er, it’s your round! I bought you a drink, you buy me one, that’s how it works. “ I was stunned. I would always make a point at the next sesh to ensure I got the first round to repay the pint. But I left that day feeling hard done by!! Am I tight??
 
TommyPlus said:
Or, and apologies in advanced for the radically socialist undertones of this suggestion, the f*cking owners of the business could pay their staff a living wage. God forbid.
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Yes, they should, I'm not for one second saying otherwise, their system is messed up. But do you think going to a business that you know operates this way, paying the business their fee, and not paying the staff their fee would achieve the aim of forcing the business in that direction? The only person that loses there is the staff, the only way to make the business change is to not go to the business or change the system.

Doing that, the punters are worse than the business, or just as liable in any case. They would be better off paying the tip and not paying for the meal or paying a portion of the meal and a portion of the tip. Or treating the tip as part of the meal/ service (as it is over there).

It's £10 meal, £2 tip, total bill £12 (£2 then goes to the waitress)
Or £12 meal,£0 tip, total bill £12 (£2 then goes to the waitress)
What it isn't is £10 meal, £0 tip, total bill £10 (£0 then goes to the waitress)

What isn't an option is applying a UK way of life (not tipping), in a foreign country that does things a different way. Jees even I tip over here and it's apparently not mandatory (although most I know do 10-15%), over there it's very much mandatory.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
He's looking in South Manchester.

In 2016, he could have bought a 3 bed house in Northenden or wherever for roughly £200k, with £160k of mortgage. He's since paid roughly £35k in rent and saved an extra £20k. If he'd bought, rather than dithered, he'd be sat in a house worth roughly an extra £30k, have paid off £35k of equity and still have saved his £20k.

So even if house prices drop to their 2016 level, he's still out of pocket for all the rent he's paid while some landlord has done b***r all and gotten rich off his hard work. And he's had to deal with letting agents and all the other **** that comes with renting.

I can't see the future, but I do know that given how much of this country's economy is tied up in house prices, the gov will do absolutely everything it can to stop them falling significantly.
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I don't think many would have paid off 35k equity in 4 years, not on a 160k mortgage, it's probably more like 15k, then add on the stamp duty, solicitors fees, building insurance and it's likely closer to 10k in real terms. Then in those 4 years, he may have outgrown his house (every first-time buyer I know has got itchy feet after 3-5 years). So then you have more solicitors fees, stamp duty, estate agents fees. Could even be down to 5k after those!

That "worth" extra 30k only beats inflation by 8k, so it's only really an 8k gain in relative terms. So really he's 10k+8k up (18k) at best, or more likely 5k+8k up (13k) at worst, but then if it drops only 10% (and pretty much everyone expects a drop) then he's down 2k-7k.

If he had invested 40k in S&P 500 in 2016, he would have over 80k now, if he had topped that up with his other 20k then it would be worth more like 110k.
That's over half his house paid this year in cash, buying when the market is likely in a dip.
It's actually better If you never buy, and just invest and let the money compound up, I think 75k at 10% each year ends up 1.5m after 30 years. I know a lot of people with 75k house deposit or a 300k house, but don't know many with a 500k house and 1m in the bank.
Plus renting provides much, much more freedom and fewer liabilities.

Rent is just a cost, it's not a loss, and it's not a loss if it's enabling you to invest in things which make better returns and provide more freedom than property, or are awaiting a timed entry into the market. The trick is making the best use of the capital you have saved (this is his error if anything). If there was no mortgage interest (now or in the future) and house prices were going up 5% every year, there was a good economic outlook, a baby boom and net migration into the UK then I would understand it, but we don't have much or any of that. It's not 1990 or 2000, yet everyone still acts like it is, it's crazy. I've got a few properties and this is why I'm selling up, it's easier to make more money elsewhere at less risk.

The government will do all they can, but they can't fight the world, even less so out of the EU. We have a falling birth rate, an economy that's likely to get a beating, a big chunk of post furlough unemployment, probably a net migration away from the UK, and a boatload of boomers heading for care homes (with nobody to fill the houses they leave).
 
We have a friend who is the best host, he will fill you with beer and his wife is a brilliant cook, nothing is too much for them. Go to a pub he will always get the last round .
 
Sammysmiths said:
My brother once text me to say he was in the pub if I fancied an afternoon drink. I was busy but said I’d pop in for one. When I arrived there was a pint on the bar waiting for me. I was driving and just literally popped in. I had my pint and a chat, and then had to leave. My brother then sternly said “er, it’s your round! I bought you a drink, you buy me one, that’s how it works. “ I was stunned. I would always make a point at the next sesh to ensure I got the first round to repay the pint. But I left that day feeling hard done by!! Am I tight??
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If I have to go when it’s my round I’ll always say I’ve gotta go but let me get the round in first - some people will accept others will say don’t be daft. I think as long as you acknowledge it’s your round then people are happy you are not trying to sneak out of it.
 
Had a mate in Benidorm on a stag doo who drank all day one day without going to the bar once, his excuse was that he never finished his drink before another one was put in his hand! Someone finally called him out on the night and he just laughed and explained.
 
To be honest my dad's amusing at 76. He's tight as feck.

The funniest thing he does makes no sense. The local garages fuel costs 3p more a litre than Morrisons 18 miles away. So he drives a 36mile round trip to get cheaper fuel😂. I guess it's not being tight as such but absolute lunicy.

I remember one year he just passed my mum her Xmas present in a marks and sparks bag for life. He didn't see the point of buying wrapping paper just to be ripped off. Trust me it was the last time he did lol.
 
GazC_MFC said:
Pretty much this. Life to short to be cyclical thinking your mates are taking you for a ride ordering the expensive stuff. Also life to short to reign in what you want to order so you dont look like taking the ****

My wife always order king prawn in the curry so I normally say we’ll pay the first 5 before splitting but most just happy to splitZ
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Agree with this. I think with some of the tales of greedy friends ordering expensive things on this thread, maybe people are just ordering what they like, but it happens to be expensive? The friends might be oblivious and not even notice. (So they might be being inconsiderate, but not tight)!

Ironically, those of us who notice when it happens, and who's ordered what in a shared bill could be the tight ones!?
 
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