YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!

Scrote said:
Corbyn forced no end of U-Turns on Tory policy just by opposing it.
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That was when the government had either a very small majority or were being propped up by the DUP. Disillusioned/disaffected Tory MPs aided the illusion that Labour were writing the narrative.

I'd like to see Corbyn force no end of u-turns when the government has an 80 seat majority with Labour having suffered its worst ever electoral result and being mired in an antisemitism scandal.

But you know all that.
 
LessoftheLip said:
That was when the government had either a very small majority or were being propped up by the DUP. Disillusioned/disaffected Tory MPs aided the illusion that Labour were writing the narrative.

I'd like to see Corbyn force no end of u-turns when the government has an 80 seat majority with Labour having suffered its worst ever electoral result and being mired in an antisemitism scandal.

But you know all that.
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Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? I don't recall that at all - mainly because it didn't happen.

The size of the majority doesn't really matter. The Tories could have forced through anything with a small majority but it's the pressure that's applied via media etc. that forces U-turns. Corbyn was astute at getting scrutiny where it was required - usually beginning with the tabloids trying to mock something he'd said and then people realising it was important enough to start querying.

Starmer has much greater access to the mainstream media so the disparity in numbers is not really important in that respect.

There was no antisemitism scandal. There was a manufactured antisemitism crisis (which is now biting the hand that fed it).

But you know all that.
 
LessoftheLip said:
That was when the government had either a very small majority or were being propped up by the DUP. Disillusioned/disaffected Tory MPs aided the illusion that Labour were writing the narrative.

I'd like to see Corbyn force no end of u-turns when the government has an 80 seat majority with Labour having suffered its worst ever electoral result and being mired in an antisemitism scandal.

But you know all that.
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‘But you know all that’….I’m not sure that is true, people have short memories.

Labour normally balance the Tories in opposition because the Tories fear losing power more than anything, the current government has been so shambolic it can only fight the election by criticising Labour policy.
 
Scrote said:
Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? I don't recall that at all - mainly because it didn't happen.

The size of the majority doesn't really matter. The Tories could have forced through anything with a small majority but it's the pressure that's applied via media etc. that forces U-turns. Corbyn was astute at getting scrutiny where it was required - usually beginning with the tabloids trying to mock something he'd said and then people realising it was important enough to start querying.

Starmer has much greater access to the mainstream media so the disparity in numbers is not really important in that respect.

There was no antisemitism scandal. There was a manufactured antisemitism crisis (which is now biting the hand that fed it).

But you know all that.
Click to expand...
The size of the majority really does matter that’s why parties celebrate a landslide.
 
Scrote said:
Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? I don't recall that at all - mainly because it didn't happen.
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Who said they did?
More to the point, which policies did Corbyn force the government into a u-turn on? Evidence required.

Scrote said:
There was no antisemitism scandal. There was a manufactured antisemitism crisis (which is now biting the hand that fed it).
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Of course there was a 'scandal' or are you suggesting the EHRC was hoodwinked?

#itwasnotascam
 
LessoftheLip said:
Who said they did?
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You did.

HolgateCorner said:
people have short memories
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Obviously...

LessoftheLip said:
are you suggesting the EHRC was hoodwinked?
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No, but I'm now suggesting that you haven't read the EHRC report.

LessoftheLip said:
Evidence required.
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  1. Brexit deal vote u-turn
  2. Brexit impact assessment u-turn
  3. European Court of Human Rights u-turn
  4. Dementia Tax u-turn (unprecedentedly dropped from the manifesto before the GE)
  5. Pensions triple lock u-turn
  6. Housing benefit cap for supported housing u-turn
  7. Self-employed National Insurance increase u-turn
  8. School meals u-turn
  9. NHS Professionals sell-off u-turn
  10. Police funding u-turn
  11. Fire safety in schools u-turn
  12. Grammar schools u-turn
  13. Abortion for Northern Irish women u-turn
  14. Winter fuel payments u-turn
  15. Universal Credit 7-day waiting period u-turn
  16. Universal Credit freephone u-turn
  17. Fox-hunting u-turn
  18. Diesel tax u-turn
  19. Manchester terror attack costs u-turn
  20. Prisoner vote u-turn
Source for above: https://skwawkbox.org/2017/12/23/effective-opposition-20-u-turns-forced-from-the-tories-in-2017/

And some stuff from twitter:

1713293010946.png


Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? Evidence required.
 
LessoftheLip said:
Who said they did?
More to the point, which policies did Corbyn force the government into a u-turn on? Evidence required.


Of course there was a 'scandal' or are you suggesting the EHRC was hoodwinked?

#itwasnotascam
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Not hoodwinked but not impartial. There was a clear conflict of interest between the EHRCs leadership's views and any independence of the investigation.
 
Scrote said:
You did.
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Er no I didn't.
I said "Disillusioned/disaffected Tory MPs aided the illusion that Labour were writing the narrative."
You've chosen to interpret that in the context forcing u-turns, not me.

Scrote said:
No, but I'm now suggesting that you haven't read the EHRC report.
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Why only now?
I have read it and I've referred to it numerous times over the last few years on here.
What an extremely strange thing to allege.

Scrote said:
Source for above: https://skwawkbox.org/2017/12/23/effective-opposition-20-u-turns-forced-from-the-tories-in-2017/
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Skwawkbox :ROFLMAO:

"In common with other left-wing alternative media sites, The Skwawkbox's stance towards the Labour leadership became more critical after Corbyn stepped down and Keir Starmer was elected as Labour leader in 2020."

"The Skwawkbox has published a regular run of stories that appear to have been briefed by insiders close to the top of the Corbyn project."

I've clicked on half a dozen of those links randomly. They just report Tory u-turns. There is no mention of Corbyn forcing the u-turn or Labour for that matter.

Show me some evidence to back up your claim that Corbyn forced u-turns.

And the "stuff from twitter". It's just a screen grab. Even the headline only talks about u-turns made since Corbyn became leader. It doesn't suggest that Corbyn himself forced the u-turns, directly or indirectly. Unless you have evidence of course.

Scrote said:
Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? Evidence required.
Click to expand...
As above.
 
Scrote said:
You did.


Obviously...


No, but I'm now suggesting that you haven't read the EHRC report.



  1. Brexit deal vote u-turn
  2. Brexit impact assessment u-turn
  3. European Court of Human Rights u-turn
  4. Dementia Tax u-turn (unprecedentedly dropped from the manifesto before the GE)
  5. Pensions triple lock u-turn
  6. Housing benefit cap for supported housing u-turn
  7. Self-employed National Insurance increase u-turn
  8. School meals u-turn
  9. NHS Professionals sell-off u-turn
  10. Police funding u-turn
  11. Fire safety in schools u-turn
  12. Grammar schools u-turn
  13. Abortion for Northern Irish women u-turn
  14. Winter fuel payments u-turn
  15. Universal Credit 7-day waiting period u-turn
  16. Universal Credit freephone u-turn
  17. Fox-hunting u-turn
  18. Diesel tax u-turn
  19. Manchester terror attack costs u-turn
  20. Prisoner vote u-turn
Source for above: https://skwawkbox.org/2017/12/23/effective-opposition-20-u-turns-forced-from-the-tories-in-2017/

And some stuff from twitter:

View attachment 75251


Which government policies did disillusioned Tory MPs force a U-turn on? Evidence required.
Click to expand...
What about Brexit? It would have been handy for working people if that had been ditched?
 
LessoftheLip said:
Er no I didn't.
I said "Disillusioned/disaffected Tory MPs aided the illusion that Labour were writing the narrative."
You've chosen to interpret that in the context forcing u-turns, not me.
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So why do you think the U- turns happened if Labour (under Corbyn) weren't responsible and the disaffected Tories weren't responsible either?

I'm not sure where you think the U- turns came from. Maybe the Tories just care more than we think they do..?
 
HolgateCorner said:
What about Brexit? It would have been handy for working people if that had been ditched?
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Fully agree but I'm not sure how that was Corbyn's fault.

Labour members were majority remain., Corbyn's constituency was majority remain. There's not much else he had sway over when compared with everyone else involved.

Apparently he went to 21 venues, at least, to speak in favour of remain. More than any other Labour MP.

He tried to get the PLP to agree on the indicative votes to prevent a hard brexit but they had better things to do; like invent an antisemitism crisis.
 
Scrote said:
So why do you think the U- turns happened if Labour (under Corbyn) weren't responsible and the disaffected Tories weren't responsible either?

I'm not sure where you think the U- turns came from. Maybe the Tories just care more than we think they do..?
Click to expand...

So you don't think the Lib Dems had anything to do with the u-turns? Or the SNP, or the weight of public opinion, or the constituents of Tory MPs when they returned for weekend surgeries, or focus groups, or relevant industry bodies?

The claim by BBG was that "Corbyn forced u-turns". I've asked you both for evidence and neither of you has produced a shred. You've provided lists and links produced by left wing organisations connected to Corbyn but it's clear that you haven't done any research yourself and are just parroting speculative claims. I'm holding you to the same level of scrutiny as you do to others making a claim about Starmer and the Labour Party now so don't moan about it.

Scrote said:
Apparently he went to 21 venues, at least, to speak in favour of remain. More than any other Labour MP.
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More than any other Labour MP, do you have evidence for that?
 
Scrote said:
Fully agree but I'm not sure how that was Corbyn's fault.

Labour members were majority remain., Corbyn's constituency was majority remain. There's not much else he had sway over when compared with everyone else involved.

Apparently he went to 21 venues, at least, to speak in favour of remain. More than any other Labour MP.

He tried to get the PLP to agree on the indicative votes to prevent a hard brexit but they had better things to do; like invent an antisemitism crisis.
Click to expand...
Definitely not Corbyn’s fault but I don’t think you can dress up 2017 to 2019 as a successful period of Labour opposition when it resulted in such a heavy defeat on the back of an unclear Brexit policy.
 
Ziggy said:
The main thing is. Can they get those votes out in an age group notorious for not being årsed to vote?
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You see that's my (main) problem with Keir Starmer. If he set out a bold vision for the future he'd have the young uns going out and voting for Labour this time and for the next generation. Instead he's chasing the votes of old people who switched five years ago, many of whom are dead already. It's just so timid.
 
Ziggy said:
The main thing is. Can they get those votes out in an age group notorious for not being årsed to vote?
Click to expand...
You see that's my (main) problem with Keir Starmer. If he set out a bold vision for the future he'd have the young uns going out and voting for Labour this time and for the next generation. Instead he's chasing the votes of old people who switched five years ago, many of whom are dead already. It's just so timid.
 
Ziggy said:
The main thing is. Can they get those votes out in an age group notorious for not being årsed to vote?
Click to expand...
You see that's my (main) problem with Keir Starmer. If he set out a bold vision for the future he'd have the young uns going out and voting for Labour this time and for the next generation. Instead he's chasing the votes of old people who switched five years ago, many of whom are dead already. It's just so timid.
 
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