You know the drill

Got to say I've never though remainers were very good at making their case when it comes to arguing brexit is bad because it won't be as easy to take advantage of eastern Europeans willing to do underpaid, sh*t conditions, rural work.

Low_Key said:
what about the local workers who would be brought in to fill the gap? :poop::poop::poop:
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It's not like there isn't an abundance of unemployed folk in the country is it?
 
SuperStu said:
Got to say I've never though remainers were very good at making their case when it comes to arguing brexit is bad because it won't be as easy to take advantage of eastern Europeans willing to do underpaid, sh*t conditions, rural work.



It's not like there isn't an abundance of unemployed folk in the country is it?
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I think the argument was that those unemployed folk WOULDN'T do these jobs. This was dismissed as nonsense and project fear.

Yet another part of "project fear" that has actually come true. Who knew?
 
SmallTown said:
I think the argument was that those unemployed folk WOULDN'T do these jobs. This was dismissed as nonsense and project fear.

Yet another part of "project fear" that has actually come true. Who knew?
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ST I don't think you're seeing my point. If Taylor's Bulbs are struggling to hire flower pickers the obvious solution is they're going to have to stick their hand in their pocket and offer better pay. Not that they can just take advantage of someone from a poorer country.
 
SuperStu said:
ST I don't think you're seeing my point. If Taylor's Bulbs are struggling to hire flower pickers the obvious solution is they're going to have to stick their hand in their pocket and offer better pay. Not that they can just take advantage of someone from a poorer country.
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That or the business stops being viable and folds up.
 
SuperStu said:
Well that's capitalism 🤷‍♂️ commiserations to Kevin Haynes and the Taylor's but nobody owes them a business if they can't afford to pay their staff.
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Brexit defenders are so altruistic and generous aren’t they? Business may go bust and put people out of work directly because of Brexit. The response of someone defending Brexit? “Tough”. I think we are really seeing the “I’m alright jack” mindset of the brexiteer. I’m not in finance, a trader in European produce, a fisherman, a flower seller and I don’t travel abroad. Therefore Brexit hasn’t negatively impacted me therefore it must be a good thing.
 
SuperStu said:
ST I don't think you're seeing my point. If Taylor's Bulbs are struggling to hire flower pickers the obvious solution is they're going to have to stick their hand in their pocket and offer better pay. Not that they can just take advantage of someone from a poorer country.
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The people who come over here from Europe are part of a seasonal workforce who do this for a living all over the world. Teams move to the farms with subsidised accommodation and paid a wage that is acceptable to them for when they return home.

The UK workforce will not pick up this slack in sufficient numbers, unemployed or not as it is hard labour in the middle of nowhere for a short time. The travel costs alone make it not viable for most, it's simply not a case of lazy British, it's the cost of living.

The only way to attract UK worker in sufficient numbers is to substantially increase the pay for these jobs, something that cannot be done on the margins they operate on with supermarkets being the major culprit in forcing down the price they can charge for their goods.

This will have long term consequences for us all.
 
ST I think we may just have fundamentally different politics. You identify and sympathise with the owners Tayor's Bulbs, I identify and sympathise with their underpaid staff and the working class of the country. This is probably why you ended up having a little red scare at the last election and voting for the tories - only to later regret it.

Altruism and generosity? Please. We're talking about a wealthy landowner complaining that their unearned incomes falling off because they can't take advantage of foreign workers happy to slog for poverty wages. If you want to be altruistic and generous lend that support to the 30 workers they still have on as I expect they're being overworked terribly to make up the slack.
 
SuperStu said:
ST I think we may just have fundamentally different politics. You identify and sympathise with the owners Tayor's Bulbs, I identify and sympathise with their underpaid staff and the working class of the country. This is probably why you ended up having a little red scare at the last election and voting for the tories - only to later regret it.

Altruism and generosity? Please. We're talking about a wealthy landowner complaining that their unearned incomes falling off because they can't take advantage of foreign workers happy to slog for poverty wages. If you want to be altruistic and generous lend that support to the 30 workers they still have on as I expect they're being overworked terribly to make up the slack.
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Actually we are talking about this happening all over the country in different fields and for different Brexit related reasons. The fact you don’t care that a business fails, you’re happy that someone’s life work can be destroyed by Brexit shows the type of person you are
 
Chris_Boro said:
The travel costs alone make it not viable for most, it's simply not a case of lazy British, it the cost of living.

The only way to attract UK worker in sufficient numbers is to substantially increase the pay for these jobs
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Agree. 💯

Chris_Boro said:
something that cannot be done on the margins they operate on with supermarkets being the major culprit in forcing down the price they can charge for their goods.
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Again, if they can't afford to pay their staff then they'll have to go out of business. The supply of daffodils will go down, the cost will have to come up and some other daffodil farm will stay afloat. This is meant to be the economic system we're living by. Plenty of folk like myself wanted something different but the only politician to offer that for 40 years got monstered by the press.
 
SmallTown said:
Actually we are talking about this happening all over the country in different fields and for different Brexit related reasons. The fact you don’t care that a business fails, you’re happy that someone’s life work can be destroyed by Brexit shows the type of person you are
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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: the type of person I am, ffs. Come on ST. Don't blame me - I wanted internet communism and 4 extra bank holidays. You can't vote for everything in life to be controlled by the all knowing "invisible hand" of the market and then turn emotional every time a business goes under.

Let me ask you this. What is a good reason I should want a small daffodil picking business to stay afloat, if them staying afloat means they take advantage of their workers by underpaying them? I say again, Kevin Haynes and the Taylor family aren't owed a business are they? If it's not financially viable, it's not financially viable.
 
SuperStu said:
Agree. 💯



Again, if they can't afford to pay their staff then they'll have to go out of business. The supply of daffodils will go down, the cost will have to come up and some other daffodil farm will stay afloat. This is meant to be the economic system we're living by. Plenty of folk like myself wanted something different but the only politician to offer that for 40 years got monstered by the press.
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We'll import the daffodils from The Netherlands........ At what cost?
 
SmallTown said:
I think the argument was that those unemployed folk WOULDN'T do these jobs. This was dismissed as nonsense and project fear.

Yet another part of "project fear" that has actually come true. Who knew?
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Any chance COVID played a part in this and the prevention of movement at the moment.

I know the hospitality industry will struggle for workers due to a lot of East Europeans going home due to the pandemic. There was a figure in the news earlier this week regarding how many had left for this reason.

Just a thought.
 
SuperStu said:
Agree. 💯



Again, if they can't afford to pay their staff then they'll have to go out of business. The supply of daffodils will go down, the cost will have to come up and some other daffodil farm will stay afloat. This is meant to be the economic system we're living by. Plenty of folk like myself wanted something different but the only politician to offer that for 40 years got monstered by the press.
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You do realise this is problem for the vast majority of the farming sector right? Should they all just go out of business?

You're advocating letting farms go bust because of something that happened completely out of their control. They can't attract the UK workforce due to low pay and cannot increase pay due to market forces on their margins.

The wage package was acceptable for the EU workers that came over here as accommodation/services were provided along with their hourly rate, especially as it is often a very good wage for when they returned home.

There are many jobs that rely on on these farms, ones that pay UK workers well, that will also go. More acceptable collateral damage?

All I keep hearing is "Buy British" which if nothing changes will be followed by "I'm not paying that!".

These farms will require substantial subsidises to operate in the short to medium term to attract workers. Something this government will not do in any meaningful way. This is the reality being exposed.

At least we could just pave them over for housing right?
 
Norman_Conquest said:
Any chance COVID played a part in this and the prevention of movement at the moment.

I know the hospitality industry will struggle for workers due to a lot of East Europeans going home due to the pandemic. There was a figure in the news earlier this week regarding how many had left for this reason.

Just a thought.
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It doesn't appear so in this case.
 
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