Will Middlesbrough become a City in 2022?

Boro as a city would be a bit like Stoke. The local population is enough for a city but it's polycentric. It's not obvious why Boro should be a city and Stockton just a town.
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
I don't disagree with you Rob that a benefit of City status is that it will open up potential investment. I don't accept it's a given but yes there is potential for money to be invested. Although some would disagree.

I don't accept that the Fire Station in Sunderland happened just because they'd been granted city status some 30 years previously. Stockton managed to get the Globe up and running again without the benefit of so called city status.

I've no problem with Middlesbrough applying for/becoming a "city" if it leads to investment but I will never think of Middlesbrough as it is as a city in the true meaning of what the majority of people believe a city to be, ie a Newcastle or a Leeds - not saying it can't be in the future but certainly not now.

I don't understand how you can say Middlesbrough is a regional shopping hub - I really have no idea what you mean by that. The town centre is dead.
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I live and work in the centre - it is not prospering but it is far from dead. You maybe need to compare Middlesbrough with Preston, and Sunderland rather than Newcastle or Leeds. The Fire Station came at the end of a long process I would argue started by City Status and then in the failed bid for City of Culture. Tees Valley chose not to bid for City of Culture, something I find immensely frustrating, especially if Durham County actually succeeds. But Sunderland's City of Culture bid already had built into it a commitment to develop the arts and culture and venues.
Would you say Middlesbrough is as much if not more of a city than St Asaph, Chelmsford or Perth in Scotland that were all chosen ahead of Middlesbrough in 2012? St Asaph has a population of less than 4000. I would argue Middlesbrough (and Stockton) is as much a regional centre as Perth, Sunderland, Preston and Chelmsford.
 
tripleheader said:
The old marshalling yards is ripe for development, but for what, housing? Industrial estates like the Riverside Indust. Estate is expanding.
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The old marshalling yards are a habitat for very rare butterflies. Hence the emblems on the adjacent Maze Park.
 
Stoke is a "city" and has been since 1925. It has a population of 388k, but includes the separate Borough of Newcastle Under Lyme.
The Unitary Authority of Stoke does not include Newcastle Under Lyme and has a population of 256k. In other words bits and pieces are added on to create the apparent scale of 388k.

The truth is Stoke itself was one of six small towns that were grouped to make the city.
Hanley, Burslem, Tunstall, Longton and Fenton are the other five towns. Stoke "city" centre is in Hanley, not Stoke.

Stoke on Trent is a small Teesside.
Teesside is Middlesbrough (proper inc Eston etc, not UA), Stockton-on-Tees, Redcar, Thornaby/Ingleby, Yarm/Eaglescliffe, Billingham. The population is 475,478. Middlesbrough itself is miles bigger than any of the towns of Stoke.

Tees Valley would add in Darlington and Hartlepool, which takes it to 675,914. Personally for me they are their own places.

There is no doubt that in terms of urban areas, it is bizarre that we do not have city status. Given the current need to apply based on one place, then it is obvious that everyone should get behind Middlesbrough's bid.
Middlesbrough is the place with far more national profile and so should carry the baton.

There is absolutely no benefit in being a group of bickering towns, that holds back everyone.
There may not be that much benefit in Middlesbrough becoming a city, but seriously, it can't do any harm and will give a lot of people a nice lift.
 
fmttmadmin said:
I live and work in the centre - it is not prospering but it is far from dead. You maybe need to compare Middlesbrough with Preston, and Sunderland rather than Newcastle or Leeds. The Fire Station came at the end of a long process I would argue started by City Status and then in the failed bid for City of Culture. Tees Valley chose not to bid for City of Culture, something I find immensely frustrating, especially if Durham County actually succeeds. But Sunderland's City of Culture bid already had built into it a commitment to develop the arts and culture and venues.
Would you say Middlesbrough is as much if not more of a city than St Asaph, Chelmsford or Perth in Scotland that were all chosen ahead of Middlesbrough in 2012? St Asaph has a population of less than 4000. I would argue Middlesbrough (and Stockton) is as much a regional centre as Perth, Sunderland, Preston and Chelmsford.
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I live half a mile further out of town than you do Rob, I spend plenty of time in the town centre - from a retail point of view it's dead.

You didn't answer my question - how/why is "Middlesbrough a shopping hub"

Preston is a town that has City status, I have been and stayed there several times pre covid. From a retail and entertainment point of view I would say it is worse than Middlesbrough. I can't comment on any other benefits as I'm not familiar enough with the place.

I would say Middlesbrough is not a city in any sense of the word no matter who you compare it with, I've never been to St Asaph, Chelmsford and only to Perth once in 2013 but drove to a pub, watched a band, stayed in the hotel next door then drove away the next morning so can't really comment on them but off the top of my head I wouldn't think of them as Cities.

I think you're stretching it to credit the city status of Sunderland as being a driver in the Fire Station, only 30 years between city status being granted and the venue opening! As I said, what about the Globe?

The majority of places granted City status are no more than towns that have benefitted from investment, I have no problem with that and I would welcome it for Middlesbrough but it still wouldn't make me think of Middlesbrough as a city.

It's all academic anyway, Reading will get the nod.
 
fmttmadmin said:
. I would argue Middlesbrough (and Stockton) is as much a regional centre as Perth, Sunderland, Preston and Chelmsford.
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Perth was granted city status for a number of reasons. First it used to be a city and that status should have been restored before the 21st century , second it's a regional hub for towns like Crieff, Pitlochry, Aberfeldy, and it has literary and royal connections.
 
Dumfries, Reading, Coleraine, Wrexham as one from each of the 4 nations. Gibraltar and Douglas as well as they can apply for the first time, the former to pee off Spain….

Maybe one other to give 7 cities, one for each decade…..in with a chance?
 
City status gives a place more confidence.

Middlesbrough centre is in decline but I would say most large towns are in decline to some degree. Many towns have lost their Debenhams and BHS stores. Its unlucky for Middlesbrough that BHS, Debenhams and House of Fraser are all located together - Online shopping is killing town centres. Teesside Park has significantly affected Middlesbrough centre too. TP seems to holding up well. Its more convenient to get to, free to park, more modern and feels safer. Middlesbrough has benefitted from an expanding University and more digital jobs, the Town has also moved slightly Over the Border which was a bit of dead zone for many years.
 
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Redwurzel said:
City status gives a place more confidence.

Middlesbrough centre is in decline but I would say most large towns are in decline to some degree. Many towns have lost their Debenhams and BHS stores. Its unlucky for Middlesbrough that BHS, Debenhams and House of Fraser are all located together - Online shopping is killing town centres. Teesside Park has significantly affected Middlesbrough centre too. TP seems to holding up well. Its more convenient to get to, free to park, more modern and feels safer.
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The town centre was absolutely packed today. In fact in 25 years it was the longest queue I have ever beeh stuck in driving down Union Street towards my office.
 
r00fie1 said:
"driving" ?!!!!;)
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I’m not sure city status does bring in any extra investment. Are there any mechanisms for this or is it based on positive publicity and private investment deciding to put down roots here?

In terms of the state of things in Boro, it’s at the lowest point I’ve ever seen. Shopping wise it’s lost options and volume, bars and restaurants have disappeared, night life is almost dead. Good jobs are very hard to come by and even the roads and transport infrastructure is outdated and crumbling.

Compared with the late 90s and 2000s it’s night and day.

We need to start being honest about things and face the real challenges. City status is just a distraction to help a few people cling to power. Like many of the white elephants, costing hundreds of millions in taxpayer money, that are never out of the local paper.
 
Always been surprised how Reading is not a city already. The place is huge, busy, HQ of some major players and great transport links...Heathrow . Gatwick, M4, rail hub for the south / south west. 35 miles from the capital.
Apparently the Queen keeps refusing its bid, as Windsor would lose its most prominent town of Berkshire status.
Its final bid apparently.
 
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Kevlar said:
I’m not sure city status does bring in any extra investment. Are there any mechanisms for this or is it based on positive publicity and private investment deciding to put down roots here?

In terms of the state of things in Boro, it’s at the lowest point I’ve ever seen. Shopping wise it’s lost options and volume, bars and restaurants have disappeared, night life is almost dead. Good jobs are very hard to come by and even the roads and transport infrastructure is outdated and crumbling.

Compared with the late 90s and 2000s it’s night and day.

We need to start being honest about things and face the real challenges. City status is just a distraction to help a few people cling to power. Like many of the white elephants, costing hundreds of millions in taxpayer money, that are never out of the local paper.
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The railway station development should start soon - the problem with buses is that they are privately owned and any restructuring: creation of multi-transport inter-changes, co-ordinated timetables and serious expansion of services - will be paid for by the public purse.

City status will be a driver for development and investment. The direct service to London is important - and whats needed is a second major crossing of the Tees - to the East. This could incorporate road / rail so there is a direct end-on link to the Hartlepool line, to permit trains through Boro to the North and South without reversing.

Ideally a light rapid-transport system or tram would be ideal - the Marton Crawl and the other problems in the area will never be resolved because there are simply too many cars.

With the right pressures from the Councils across Cleveland and a willingness to inwardly invest - the City has a good opportunity to move forward.
 
Kevlar said:
I’m not sure city status does bring in any extra investment. Are there any mechanisms for this or is it based on positive publicity and private investment deciding to put down roots here?

In terms of the state of things in Boro, it’s at the lowest point I’ve ever seen. Shopping wise it’s lost options and volume, bars and restaurants have disappeared, night life is almost dead. Good jobs are very hard to come by and even the roads and transport infrastructure is outdated and crumbling.

Compared with the late 90s and 2000s it’s night and day.

We need to start being honest about things and face the real challenges. City status is just a distraction to help a few people cling to power. Like many of the white elephants, costing hundreds of millions in taxpayer money, that are never out of the local paper.
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I don't think it will bring in much more money, it's just a status symbol.

But there are 3 major built up areas in the North East: Tyneside, Wearside and Teesside.

Tyneside has Newcastle as a city.
Wearside has Sunderland as a city.
Teesside should have Middlesbrough as a city.

Durham is the third city of the North East as it stands and it's only the fourth largest settlement in County Durham, let alone the rest of the North East.

We're not in an age where cathedrals matter for city status, so Middlesbrough absolutely deserves to be a city compared to some of the current cities in England (I'd say the UK, but the smaller populations of the other home nations makes the definition different).
 
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TeaCider said:
I don't think it will bring in much more money, it's just a status symbol.

But there are 3 major built up areas in the North East: Tyneside, Wearside and Teesside.

Tyneside has Newcastle as a city.
Wearside has Sunderland as a city.
Teesside should have Middlesbrough as a city.

Durham is the third city of the North East as it stands and it's only the fourth largest settlement in County Durham let alone the rest if the North East.

We're not in an age where cathedrals matter for city status, so Middlesbrough absolutely deserves to be a city compared to some of the current cities in England (I'd say the UK, but the smaller populations of the other home nations makes the definition different).
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It does bring in extra revenue though as it allows us to access funding allocated to cities that we don’t have access to at the moment.

oh and could care less about fkin reading either.
 
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