Why do we need a mayor in Middlesbrough?

It’s not joining in.. and I don’t think they are as bad as each other. Far from it.

Our mayor is dreadful and he’s quite rightly been labelled as such. I don’t get why we need to put on heirs and graces to call out bad politicians and how by doing that we are somehow tarred with the same brush and somehow just as culpable for their actions.

It’s a classic toddler move.. I know you are, but what am I?
By all means call him dreadful. Highlight what you think he is doing wrong. Question his decisions and even motives.
All fair enough.

I just think "shithead" was unnecessary and says more about the user than the target. Especially from another councillor.
 
By all means call him dreadful. Highlight what you think he is doing wrong. Question his decisions and even motives.
All fair enough.

I just think "shithead" was unnecessary and says more about the user than the target. Especially from another councillor.
Don't really see the fuss tbh, this is a fairly laddish football forum so getting flustered over calling a seemingly dodgy politician a shithead seems a bit strange imo
 
Don't really see the fuss tbh, this is a fairly laddish football forum so getting flustered over calling a seemingly dodgy politician a shithead seems a bit strange imo
I'm not sure Rob would agree.
Councillors or not, posters have been put on the naughty step for stuff like that.
I also suspect your view might differ depending on who is calling who a shithead. Or a ******. Or a ****. Or whatever.

Also see No. 6 on the board rules.
 
I'm not sure Rob would agree.
Councillors or not, posters have been put on the naughty step for stuff like that.
I also suspect your view might differ depending on who is calling who a shithead. Or a ******. Or a ****. Or whatever.

Also see No. 6 on the board rules.
Report it then and move on
 
No thanks. I'd rather discuss it.
If that bothers you then maybe you should move on. Or not. Up to you.
Tbf he used it to describe the specific action of blaming others for things under his remit, not as a personal insult based on nothing. It's fairly mild language too, not sure what you're getting so worked up about.

"he chose to be a shithead and blamed council officers for the mess he has got the council in."
 
I'm not the one getting upset by rude words, there is a report process in place if you think rob will disagree with it and hasn't seen it.
The rude word itself doesn't upset me. But I think you know that.
I don't think he should have stooped to use it. You disagree.

And btw Sherlock1969, I actually support the Labour Party. I just don't think TheLodger is representing the party very well with that type of comment. (If you weren't aiming your 'Tory deflection tactics' comment at me then I apologise).
 
By all means call him dreadful. Highlight what you think he is doing wrong. Question his decisions and even motives.
All fair enough.

I just think "shithead" was unnecessary and says more about the user than the target. Especially from another councillor.
Saying a mild swear word in frustration does not compare to the constant wrong doings from a mayor who is wasting money and costing jobs. Unforgivable in my book especially in an area that has already suffered so much and in this current financial climate.
 
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If there's a conflict of interest surely he shouldn't be involved at all, never mind just for the vote.
"Mr Preston, who was meant to present the plans, did not turn up to the Friday meeting. It is understood that this is because he was advised shortly before by the council’s monitoring officer that he had a conflict of interest, due to a building he owns in the new MDC boundaries, and would not be able to be involved."

Yet his register of interests says he has no property in which he has a beneficial interest, but he was going ahead to push the MDC through until he was stopped and now has put his name to a letter saying the democratic decision reached should be overturned because... reasons :unsure:

https://moderngov.middlesbrough.gov.uk/mgDeclarationSubmission.aspx?UID=128&HID=127&FID=0&HPID=0

1677601915731.png
 
This thread has gone a bit crazy but to bring it back around.

The directly elected Mayor model is just another form of executive power. In the Mayor model residents have the ability to directly elect the Mayor. This is opposed to the Executive model where the largest party is invited to elect a leader of the council. The Executive model will usually have a "council chairperson" or "Lord Mayor" who will chair the proceedings of the council. In a Mayor model the Mayor is expected to do that. In the Executive model the cabinet of the council is made up of councillors usually from the ruling party.

As a general fact check at the time of the referendum on the Mayor the Labour Group campaigned abolishing the Mayor knowing that it was the largest group (by some margin). That is no longer the case but seems to still be their position.

Topline pros and cons:

Pro-Mayor - directly elected so people can vote them out directly. Power of budget setting (but requires ratification by full council), can appoint a mixed cabinet, can be a different political party that the majority party which forces parties to work together, they are elected by the whole authority not just one ward.

Cons-Mayor - lots of direct power, leadership can't be changed throughout term, cross party working doesn't always happen, can become personality-driven, tends to be more costly, can just be another partisan face that brings no skill to the role

Pros-Exec - Leaders can be changed by political parties if performance is bad, likely to be more stable as party majority tends to be more stable year on year,

Cons-Exec - Only one ward theoretically elects the leader of the council, much less accountability, creates partisanship, lots more "special allowances" which tends to negate the cost of a mayoral system, no clearly elected leader role, creates a partisan "jobs for the boys" vibe (although the mayor can do that too), quality of Cllrs in local govt can be very poor
--
That very briefly covers that. I personally don't have that much of a preference. There are some places where it works really well and the area has benefited big time from having a mayor at council level: Bedford and Watford spring to mind. Others not so good...

For a party like Labour (and many tories) it will always prefer the Exec model because its easier to win. I am not saying that this is why you are in favour of abolishing the Mayor but turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas.
--
On the abstention of the budget stuff - Labour could (and should have with a group of 18) come up with an alternative budget. Unless you thought the vote would not be as close. You could have used the voting block quite effectively to have the changes you wanted to see added to the budget rather than abstaining. But I don't know the specifics behind the logic here and I don't live in Boro anymore.
--
On the purchase of the Crown - this would require a capital budget rather than the revenue budget so you can call the decision in and have it scrutinised (revenue budget being year-on-year spending commitments, capital being one-off investments). They might argue that it is commercially sensitive and have the scrutiny done behind closed doors but either way, the decision should be called in as part of the capital budget. I think most councils have a 2-week period of call-in.
--
I have tried to stick to facts rather than opinions on the above. For clarity, I work with politicians from every political party. I am sure there are more local nuances that I am not up to date with.
 
This thread has gone a bit crazy but to bring it back around.

The directly elected Mayor model is just another form of executive power. In the Mayor model residents have the ability to directly elect the Mayor. This is opposed to the Executive model where the largest party is invited to elect a leader of the council. The Executive model will usually have a "council chairperson" or "Lord Mayor" who will chair the proceedings of the council. In a Mayor model the Mayor is expected to do that. In the Executive model the cabinet of the council is made up of councillors usually from the ruling party.

As a general fact check at the time of the referendum on the Mayor the Labour Group campaigned abolishing the Mayor knowing that it was the largest group (by some margin). That is no longer the case but seems to still be their position.

Topline pros and cons:

Pro-Mayor - directly elected so people can vote them out directly. Power of budget setting (but requires ratification by full council), can appoint a mixed cabinet, can be a different political party that the majority party which forces parties to work together, they are elected by the whole authority not just one ward.

Cons-Mayor - lots of direct power, leadership can't be changed throughout term, cross party working doesn't always happen, can become personality-driven, tends to be more costly, can just be another partisan face that brings no skill to the role

Pros-Exec - Leaders can be changed by political parties if performance is bad, likely to be more stable as party majority tends to be more stable year on year,

Cons-Exec - Only one ward theoretically elects the leader of the council, much less accountability, creates partisanship, lots more "special allowances" which tends to negate the cost of a mayoral system, no clearly elected leader role, creates a partisan "jobs for the boys" vibe (although the mayor can do that too), quality of Cllrs in local govt can be very poor
--
That very briefly covers that. I personally don't have that much of a preference. There are some places where it works really well and the area has benefited big time from having a mayor at council level: Bedford and Watford spring to mind. Others not so good...

For a party like Labour (and many tories) it will always prefer the Exec model because its easier to win. I am not saying that this is why you are in favour of abolishing the Mayor but turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas.
--
On the abstention of the budget stuff - Labour could (and should have with a group of 18) come up with an alternative budget. Unless you thought the vote would not be as close. You could have used the voting block quite effectively to have the changes you wanted to see added to the budget rather than abstaining. But I don't know the specifics behind the logic here and I don't live in Boro anymore.
--
On the purchase of the Crown - this would require a capital budget rather than the revenue budget so you can call the decision in and have it scrutinised (revenue budget being year-on-year spending commitments, capital being one-off investments). They might argue that it is commercially sensitive and have the scrutiny done behind closed doors but either way, the decision should be called in as part of the capital budget. I think most councils have a 2-week period of call-in.
--
I have tried to stick to facts rather than opinions on the above. For clarity, I work with politicians from every political party. I am sure there are more local nuances that I am not up to date with.
Yes it could have been called in, but pointless when the make up is with so called independents, who will always- like last night, support the mayor. So we could have had the scrutiny meeting, but because they call themselves independents, they get the majority on the committee.
 
This thread has gone a bit crazy but to bring it back around.

The directly elected Mayor model is just another form of executive power. In the Mayor model residents have the ability to directly elect the Mayor. This is opposed to the Executive model where the largest party is invited to elect a leader of the council. The Executive model will usually have a "council chairperson" or "Lord Mayor" who will chair the proceedings of the council. In a Mayor model the Mayor is expected to do that. In the Executive model the cabinet of the council is made up of councillors usually from the ruling party.

As a general fact check at the time of the referendum on the Mayor the Labour Group campaigned abolishing the Mayor knowing that it was the largest group (by some margin). That is no longer the case but seems to still be their position.

Topline pros and cons:

Pro-Mayor - directly elected so people can vote them out directly. Power of budget setting (but requires ratification by full council), can appoint a mixed cabinet, can be a different political party that the majority party which forces parties to work together, they are elected by the whole authority not just one ward.

Cons-Mayor - lots of direct power, leadership can't be changed throughout term, cross party working doesn't always happen, can become personality-driven, tends to be more costly, can just be another partisan face that brings no skill to the role

Pros-Exec - Leaders can be changed by political parties if performance is bad, likely to be more stable as party majority tends to be more stable year on year,

Cons-Exec - Only one ward theoretically elects the leader of the council, much less accountability, creates partisanship, lots more "special allowances" which tends to negate the cost of a mayoral system, no clearly elected leader role, creates a partisan "jobs for the boys" vibe (although the mayor can do that too), quality of Cllrs in local govt can be very poor
--
That very briefly covers that. I personally don't have that much of a preference. There are some places where it works really well and the area has benefited big time from having a mayor at council level: Bedford and Watford spring to mind. Others not so good...

For a party like Labour (and many tories) it will always prefer the Exec model because its easier to win. I am not saying that this is why you are in favour of abolishing the Mayor but turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas.
--
On the abstention of the budget stuff - Labour could (and should have with a group of 18) come up with an alternative budget. Unless you thought the vote would not be as close. You could have used the voting block quite effectively to have the changes you wanted to see added to the budget rather than abstaining. But I don't know the specifics behind the logic here and I don't live in Boro anymore.
--
On the purchase of the Crown - this would require a capital budget rather than the revenue budget so you can call the decision in and have it scrutinised (revenue budget being year-on-year spending commitments, capital being one-off investments). They might argue that it is commercially sensitive and have the scrutiny done behind closed doors but either way, the decision should be called in as part of the capital budget. I think most councils have a 2-week period of call-in.
--
I have tried to stick to facts rather than opinions on the above. For clarity, I work with politicians from every political party. I am sure there are more local nuances that I am not up to date with.
Thanks very much for the informative insight there Didsbury Smog 92
 
Private eye done a fantastic article on Ben Houchen.

What I don’t get is that the council is “almost bankrupt” but somehow find £750k plus stamp duty to sign off the Crown??

The Crown was **** pub and a **** cinema.

If labour wanted to stop the vote last night I am amazed 9 members never turned up. I get one or two might have been Ill but if 3 members were from the Labour Party and this budget was passed it is a disgrace.

The MDC stinks, asset stripping of the Crown Jewels l(not the crown though).
 
So rather than focus on the Mayor blaming everyone else for his own failings, let's instead focus on the word "shithead" 🙄
Actually that's sort of my point.
If TheLodger wants to highlight the Mayor's errors in a serious way he would be better to avoid that language. He clearly presents himself on here as a Councillor representing the Labour Party.
If the Evening Gazette or Northern Echo asked him, as a Councillor, for his opinion on the mayor I doubt he would say "he's a shithead". Because it would detract from anything else he had to say.
Or maybe I'm wrong and he would say that.
 
Politics is a rough tough business, we defeated a real issue of some people asset grabbing , this was a amazing mainly because we are in a minority. We had a budget that some of Preston's biggest supporters didn't vote to pass.
We are councillors, in my ward of Berwick Hills and Pallister I am dealing with a multitude of issues, I'm sure you all have read the Gazette- mainly ASB, Parking, and poverty. I see the mayor often and rarely see him concerned about ASB, Parking and Poverty, in my town, my mayor doesn't appear to give a crap. Sorry if my words after a long tough day upsets some people. Life is tough for most people in my ward, I see it as my job to be tough for them, and people who know me, will know I am not about to cower down.
 
Actually that's sort of my point.
If TheLodger wants to highlight the Mayor's errors in a serious way he would be better to avoid that language. He clearly presents himself on here as a Councillor representing the Labour Party.
If the Evening Gazette or Northern Echo asked him, as a Councillor, for his opinion on the mayor I doubt he would say "he's a shithead". Because it would detract from anything else he had to say.
Or maybe I'm wrong and he would say that.

It only detracts if you avoid the main charge, the main charge being that blaming everyone else for your mistakes is a shithead thing to do.

This is also an informal forum, switching between formal and informal language is what many people do on a daily basis depending on who we are talking to.

The Mayor is attempting to throw his council under the bus where I imagine, much more colourful language has been used to describe him than "shithead".
 
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