What was your degree and is it relevant to your job?

[borolad259]

I know its a stereotype, but you saying that made me laugh.

I get why it's funny, but American art, design, music and cinema all have things to offer ... then there's counter-culture, beatniks, African American culture. Let's just say give me Steinbeck, Nathaniel West and Fitzgerald over the 19th century romantic English novel any day.

 

[JonnyHistory]

I don't mean 70k a year, that's what you would realistically earn in total (and probably more) in the first 5 years though, as opposed to getting into 70k worth of debt and coming out jobless.

In some industries yes that probably is the case, however some jobs require a degree or masters even for entry level positions (especially if you want to work abroad in places like the US) and apprenticeships are not exactly bountiful in the UK these days.

70k over 5 years is peanuts, you could earn that stacking shelves, what you are quoting is essentially minimum wage for 5 years.

Based on last years data "University graduates in England had an average annual salary of 38,500 British pounds a year in 2022, 11,500 pounds higher than the average salary for non-graduates" source = https://www.statista.com/statistics... England had,average salary for non-graduates.

A better balance is needed but to say vocational training is always the better option for career progression is just not accurate, both are needed and which is the better option is very much profession dependant in many cases.

Lastly, university is also about more than education, it is a gateway to adulthood for many people and the experience in many ways is as important as the education. Work is a long slog to retirement, university gives that buffer to improve your education and skills without entering the workforce at 16/18.

 

[SmallTown]

I went to Uni in the 90's in Plymouth on a Comp Sci course and the required reading was a book written by a professor at Teesside University. Cannot for the life of me remember his name.

Alan something or other. He taught me. Also made his own book required reading. Cheeky blighter

 

[SmallTown]

Alan clements it was. The fact I had to look that up showed how much I had absorbed from uni!

He was a decent, if quirky, guy.

There was a rumour going round that he graded one classes submissions by throwing the papers down his stairs, and they would get a marl depending on the stair the landed on. When someone told him thay wasn't fair he said "well, neither is life"

Once, in the middle of a lecture,apropos of nothing, he told us he had been struck be lightening yesterday. (In a plane) probably the only thing I remember from uni!

 

[norfolkngood]

From 1973 I was taught Basic. As part of studying O level Computer Science. I took the exam in 1975. I then took the A level in 1977. I think both of these courses relied on Teesside Poly for the technology.

I wanted to do a straight Computer Science degree and wanted to move away from home. Hence ending up studying in London. Then working there for around 27 years.

I did consider Teesside Poly. However my careers advisor pushed me towards a university. As mentioned earlier they wanted me to do Maths. They were also pushing me to try to qualify to study Maths at Oxford of Cambridge. The compromise was a Computer Science with Maths degree at Queen Mary College. Like Teesside Poly it had a good reputation for Computer Science at that time.

I must have just missed you at QMC Spanishman. I left in 1974 with a BSc Geology. Happy days in South Woodford and Mile End.

Worked on the rigs for 3 years as a well site geologist, 2 years based in Singapore and a year in the Med on an Italian rig.

Then back to Teesside Poly as it was in those days for a Diploma in Management Studies, which led to me spending the next 35 years in the NHS, during which time I also got an MSc from UCL.

So all my qualifications have had a bearing on my employment history, but people did always ask how come i was working in the NHS with a geology degree.

 

[spanishman]

I must have just missed you at QMC Spanishman. I left in 1974 with a BSc Geology. Happy days in South Woodford and Mile End.

Worked on the rigs for 3 years as a well site geologist, 2 years based in Singapore and a year in the Med on an Italian rig.

Then back to Teesside Poly as it was in those days for a Diploma in Management Studies, which led to me spending the next 35 years in the NHS, during which time I also got an MSc from UCL.

So all my qualifications have had a bearing on my employment history, but people did always ask how come i was working in the NHS with a geology degree.

So I arrived 3 years after you left.

Spent the first year in the halls of residence at South Woodford. Then in a shared house 5 minutes walk from the halls the next year. Then Leyton for my 3rd year.

I was in the halls at the same time as Bruce Dickinson. His group used to practice in a room at the halls.

Met my first wife at uni in my second year there. Ended up living in Chingford with her.

Then moved to South Woodford again with my second wife in the mid 90s. After we had a church blessing of our wedding in the church in South Woodford. Then moved to Woodford Green. Then Spain.

 

[Laughing]

I went to Uni in the 90's in Plymouth on a Comp Sci course and the required reading was a book written by a professor at Teesside University. Cannot for the life of me remember his name.

It was probably an architecture book written by the academic Dean of maths and computing, prof Pete Prince.

 

[Laughing]

In some industries yes that probably is the case, however some jobs require a degree or masters even for entry level positions (especially if you want to work abroad in places like the US) and apprenticeships are not exactly bountiful in the UK these days.

70k over 5 years is peanuts, you could earn that stacking shelves, what you are quoting is essentially minimum wage for 5 years.

Based on last years data "University graduates in England had an average annual salary of 38,500 British pounds a year in 2022, 11,500 pounds higher than the average salary for non-graduates" source = https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191970/annual-salary-of-graduates-in-england/#:~:text=University graduates in England had,average salary for non-graduates.

A better balance is needed but to say vocational training is always the better option for career progression is just not accurate, both are needed and which is the better option is very much profession dependant in many cases.

Lastly, university is also about more than education, it is a gateway to adulthood for many people and the experience in many ways is as important as the education. Work is a long slog to retirement, university gives that buffer to improve your education and skills without entering the workforce at 16/18.

A degree comes close to a guarantee of a level of intelligence. Not much more than that, particularly for computer science.

 

[Kepler442b]

A degree comes close to a guarantee of a level of intelligence. Not much more than that, particularly for computer science.

I've found that in software development, the companies I've worked for haven't really cared whether you have a degree, if you can prove you can do the job.

I know multiple self-taught developers who've got their foot in the door through things like working on open-source projects or bootcamps, and earned over 70k within 5 years. They have been talented people and driven to learn though. I know others who went to Uni and are on less than that who are also talented and driven.

I graduated in the last decade, so I don't know if that kind of progression path into the industry has been the case for long, or if I happen to have just met some people who are outliers.

 

[Laughing]

I've found that in software development, the companies I've worked for haven't really cared whether you have a degree, if you can prove you can do the job.

I know multiple self-taught developers who've got their foot in the door through things like working on open-source projects or bootcamps, and earned over 70k within 5 years. They have been talented people and driven to learn though. I know others who went to Uni and are on less than that who are also talented and driven.

I graduated in the last decade, so I don't know if that kind of progression path into the industry has been the case for long, or if I happen to have just met some people who are outliers.

I wouldn't disagree with that. However there are plenty of companies who will not touch developers without a degree.

Without a degree the issue is usually getting your first job.

In any event that wasnt the point I was making. A computer science degree doesn't teach you to program, the tutorials and teaching materials are too simple. It does demonstrate a level of intelligence though. The average graduate has an iq of 125.

 

[spanishman]

I've found that in software development, the companies I've worked for haven't really cared whether you have a degree, if you can prove you can do the job.

I know multiple self-taught developers who've got their foot in the door through things like working on open-source projects or bootcamps, and earned over 70k within 5 years. They have been talented people and driven to learn though. I know others who went to Uni and are on less than that who are also talented and driven.

I graduated in the last decade, so I don't know if that kind of progression path into the industry has been the case for long, or if I happen to have just met some people who are outliers.

I can tell you about a Computer Science degree in 1980..... It was easy to get a job in the industry. As there was a big shortage of IT literate people.

It was also easy to get ridiculously large pay rises. Particularly as there was high inflation in the 80s. In my first job we were given 6 monthly rather than yearly pay rises. As they wanted to retain staff. The highest one of my 6 monthly pay rises was 25% of my salary. Happy days.

 

[Kepler442b]

I wouldn't disagree with that. However there are plenty of companies who will not touch developers without a degree.

Without a degree the issue is usually getting your first job.

In any event that wasnt the point I was making. A computer science degree doesn't teach you to program, the tutorials and teaching materials are too simple. It does demonstrate a level of intelligence though. The average graduate has an iq of 125.

Oh right sorry, wasn't meaning to sound like I was disagreeing with what you said much.

It is pretty much a guarantee of some level of intelligence, dedication, and the ability to learn.

When I consider my time at uni I realised that beyond basic fundamentals like OO patterns that I absorbed, the most useful skill I learned was how to quickly deep-dive in and out of different subjects and gain a degree of proficiency.

 

[Kepler442b]

I can tell you about a Computer Science degree in 1980..... It was easy to get a job in the industry. As there was a big shortage of IT literate people.

It was also easy to get ridiculously large pay rises. Particularly as there was high inflation in the 80s. In my first job we were given 6 monthly rather than yearly pay rises. As they wanted to retain staff. The highest one of my 6 monthly pay rises was 25% of my salary. Happy days.

Sounds like a fun time to be graduating, though I'd figure that back then it would also have been much more difficult a job, as more modern languages and frameworks abstract away a lot of complexity.

 

[Laughing]

Sounds like a fun time to be graduating, though I'd figure that back then it would also have been much more difficult a job, as more modern languages and frameworks abstract away a lot of complexity.

I went to Teesside because maths and computing had a connecting bridge to the student bar.

 

[Kepler442b]

I went to Teesside because maths and computing had a connecting bridge to the student bar.

Hah! That was definitely a perk.

 

[spanishman]

Sounds like a fun time to be graduating, though I'd figure that back then it would also have been much more difficult a job, as more modern languages and frameworks abstract away a lot of complexity.

Most of my programming experience was in Pascal. A high level language around prior to OOP ones.

However the consultancy I worked for had lots of different types of contracts. I was in the defence department. I spent quite a bit of time working on training systems (simulators) for new technology being deployed in the armed forces. Including working on quite a bit of low level programming stuff.

We had some fun projects on the same floor as us at the central office. For example one of the first systems for monitoring F1 racing cars. They used to replace one of the fuel tanks with microprocessor based monitoring systems. During practice rounds.

Another one was the first colour printed newspaper in the UK. With local printing sites around the country. Rather than being published centrally and then distributed by trains.

 

[spanishman]

I went to Teesside because maths and computing had a connecting bridge to the student bar.

We were in the East End of London. Near Mile End tube station. Our student bar used to get broken into regularly overnight. As there were rather a lot of criminals in that part of London in the late 70s.

 

[Norman_Conquest]

These sorts of questions, especially 'What do you do for a living' are generally to weigh up someone's status and financial worth in the eyes of the person asking to consider and assess the opportunity for a potential connection to be formed.

It's very shallow but lots and lots of people do it. More down to earth people tend not to do it so much or it will be something that won't be a priority in early interactions. But I tend to see it as somewhat of a red flag if someone you don't really know is asking.

When I met my wife, although I knew she was a student, she didn't really ask what I did for a while. When we were going out she was asking if I had enough money and was offering to pay, sometimes insisting. Didn't really think about it at the time but I guess it's a pretty good sign.

If you aren't into d*ck measuring, why do you persist in telling us about your portfolio?

 

[Norman_Conquest]

Fantastic you made a 'what I would say' a meaning full career & after such a set back - it must be great to look back and think of how many young lives you've helped and the difference you've made. You should be proud...I would be.

There have been a few of my little darlings I've worked with who have made the headlines for serious crimes but many have gone on to better themselves. It is those that go out of their way to speak to you and introduce you to their friends and family that make me feel that it was all worth while.

Just before I retired, a lad who had been permanently excluded after an abusive outburst towards me came to the unit and asked to speak with me. He apologised for the behaviour he had displayed two years earlier and was keen for me to know what he was doing.

 

[norfolkngood]

We were in the East End of London. Near Mile End tube station. Our student bar used to get broken into regularly overnight. As there were rather a lot of criminals in that part of London in the late 70s.

There were a few more in the early 70's, although Reggie and Ronnie had moved out of the area a couple of years earlier.