What is a Woman

[The Ruthsayer]

Just as an aside - I’m not sure I can articulate what a woman is.
I think (?) I’m happy for an individual to decide. One thing I’m certainly worried about is using the ‘biological’ formula.

More on topic.
At the last census I read that 48000 people identified as trans. That is a tiny, tiny proportion of our population.
Opinions are really strong given this.

Clearly women’s safety is paramount as is (IMO) a person’s right to choose their identity.
Inevitably the debate gets drawn to extremes - some will pray on women.

No idea what the answer is because each option causes potential harm either to those seeking to transition or non trans women who may be attacked.

There is and must be a clash between the interests of women and a small number of trans. For me, the rights of the 30m outweigh those of a percentage of the 48k. I only have one trans friend and she is horrified by the stance taken by the activists. After years of being accepted, she has twice been verbally abused, which she believes is due to the prominence of the trans activists. This is in Camden.

 

[The Ruthsayer]

"Subjects of importance" - ha, ha. ha

That is one of your most eloquent posts. Your persona on here was amusing, didn’t realise it hid a misogynistic bigot.

 

[bumface]

That is one of your most eloquent posts. Your persona on here was amusing, didn’t realise it hid a misogynistic bigot.

Mate, we have a government robbing us blind, an opposition who refuse to be an opposition and a cost of living crisis going on at the moment. This whole 'trans' thing isn't an 'important subject' in my eyes. I've told you this before. All of the women who I know are pro trans rights and they couldn't give a toss about 'safe spaces being 'invaded' by trans people. F*ck you with your accusations of misogyny. All of my best friends are women.

 

[The Ruthsayer]

Mate, we have a government robbing us blind, an opposition who refuse to be an opposition and a cost of living crisis going on at the moment. This whole 'trans' thing isn't an 'important subject' in my eyes. I've told you this before. All of the women who I know are pro trans rights and they couldn't give a toss about 'safe spaces being 'invaded' by trans people. F*ck you with your accusations of misogyny. All of my best friends are women.

I’m fully aware of the **** this country is in, which is why that buffoon Starmer cannot leave this to the Tories to show leadership (a point keep making). It is important; half the electorate are women and I know that the women in our lives have radically different views in trans’ rights (this is not anti-trans, just pro-women), but my experience is that Labour will lose a lot of votes here.

 

[Pembroke]

Mate, we have a government robbing us blind, an opposition who refuse to be an opposition and a cost of living crisis going on at the moment. This whole 'trans' thing isn't an 'important subject' in my eyes. I've told you this before. All of the women who I know are pro trans rights and they couldn't give a toss about 'safe spaces being 'invaded' by trans people. F*ck you with your accusations of misogyny. All of my best friends are women.

I see you have used a version of I am not racist I have black friends defence to mask your misogyny.

Do you think the safeguarding the vulnerable is of importance?

 

[bumface]

I’m fully aware of the **** this country is in, which is why that buffoon Starmer cannot leave this to the Tories to show leadership (a point keep making). It is important; half the electorate are women and I know that the women in our lives have radically different views in trans’ rights (this is not anti-trans, just pro-women), but my experience is that Labour will lose a lot of votes here.

Don't get me started on Starmer. We'll be here all night. You're obviously hanging out with the wrong kinds of women. You should get some new female friends. The female friends that you have seem to be a bit rubbish.

 

[The Ruthsayer]

Don't get me started on Starmer. We'll be here all night. You're obviously hanging out with the wrong kinds of women. You should get some new female friends. The female friends that you have seem to be a bit rubbish.

I’ll let them know.

 

[bumface]

I see you have used a version of I am not racist I have black friends defence to mask your misogyny.

Do you think the safeguarding the vulnerable is of importance?

You're not worth talking to. I'm surprised that you haven't been banned yet.

 

[Corco65]

Women are most at risk from men.

A man pretending to be a woman doesn't reduce the risk.

Allowing men to pretend to be women and giving them access to women's spaces increases the risk.

Anyone who pretends to be someone else, as a cover to take advantage or abuse someone else is a problem. If that is the case, then that's not a trans matter, its like other people who use the cover of something else, such telling lies about your age, there was a girl in the news yesterday who disguised her self as a male (not trans) to abuse another female or a police officer who pretend to care and protect but who abuses, but for some reason people always seems to focus on it being a wide spread risk presented by the trans community when in reality it isn't and the risk is much greater from others.

 

[Pembroke]

You're not worth talking to. I'm surprised that you haven't been banned yet.

You accused me of transphobia but could provide no evidence.

What I have used a technique in posts called reflective process. I have asked you what you feel about safeguarding and the equalities act, and your posts have displayed a disdain towards what are protections of the vulnerable.

You could be displaying misogyny and prejudice towards the vulnerable. Characteristics that can be shared by sexual predators.

I will ask you again do you think the safeguarding of the vulnerable is important?

 

[Corco65]

In answer to your question the male sex hence society has created safeguards like single sex spaces that uphold women's (female) rights to dignity. privacy and safety.

Does allowing males who self ID as trans women into female single sex spaces alter risk? Do trans women display sexual offending patterns of females, or males?

What percentage of females have been abused by a trans man in a changing room or toilet? And how many women have been abused by men outside of or very close to the same changing room or toilet?

 

[bumface]

You accused me of transphobia but could provide no evidence.

What I have used a technique in posts called reflective process. I have asked you what you feel about safeguarding and the equalities act, and your posts have displayed a disdain towards what are protections of the vulnerable.

You could be displaying misogyny and prejudice towards the vulnerable. Characteristics that can be shared by sexual predators.

I will ask you again do you think the safeguarding of the vulnerable is important?

Wow. So you're calling me a sexual predator now? Pretty desperate stuff from you there. Just proving my point really. You're a troll.

 

[Boroheath]

One question for you all then and its not the one you think......If someone (adult or child) feels like they want to change gender because they are trapped in the wrong body, how do they know?

ie. how does someone who is a male know what a female 'feels' like?

Everyone be careful incase you set off the trip wire set by m boro lad…

Nobody is bothered or offended… if you didn’t keep bringing it to the attention of people then everyone would just carry on with life and accept people for what gender they identify as…

Stop attention seeking!!!

 

[Pembroke]

Wow. So you're calling me a sexual predator now? Pretty desperate stuff from you there. Just proving my point really. You're a troll.

I have not called you a sexual predator.

I used another technique called alter casting in an effort to find common middle ground.

A normal persons answer to a question like do you think safeguarding the vulnerable would be? Yes, of course. Your responses have not been affirmative. You appear to lack empathy for the vulnerable.

What percentage of females have been abused by a trans man in a changing room or toilet? And how many women have been abused by men outside of or very close to the same changing room or toilet?

Those identifying as trans men commit lower levels of sexual crimes than females, or males if we look at prison stats. Those identifying as trans women appear to commit more sexual crime than males. What would be beneficial would be stats on those post transition and in possession of GRC. The skewed offending pattern for those identifying as trans women may be significantly different.

Is this exact, or even? No. Those are figures from within prison, where gender identity is recorded.

You will know (?) that there are no safe ministry of justice figures for wider society . Sexual crimes committed by trans women outside of prison are recorded by using the sex as it appears on our birth certificate, and this does not change without GRC.

What society needs is more research and evidence. Claims need evidence, and evidence feeds societies approaches, its law, policy and that safeguarding I keep mentioning.

 

[Muttley]

You are trolling. Dressing it up in pseudo intellectualism but we see you.

Reported and ignored.

 

[bumface]

I have not called you a sexual predator.

I used another technique called alter casting in an effort to find common middle ground.

A normal persons answer to a question like do you think safeguarding the vulnerable would be? Yes, of course. Your responses have not been affirmative. You appear to lack empathy for the vulnerable.



Those identifying as trans men commit lower levels of sexual crimes than females, or males if we look at prison stats. Those identifying as trans women appear to commit more sexual crime than males. What would be beneficial would be stats on those post transition and in possession of GRC. The skewed offending pattern for those identifying as trans women may be significantly different.

Is this exact, or even? No. Those are figures from within prison, where gender identity is recorded.

You will know (?) that there are no safe ministry of justice figures for wider society . Sexual crimes committed by trans women outside of prison are recorded by using the sex as it appears on our birth certificate, and this does not change without GRC.

What society needs is more research and evidence. Claims need evidence, and evidence feeds societies approaches, its law, policy and that safeguarding I keep mentioning.

And you appear to be a tw@t. Go and have a group w@nk with Linehan and Rowling. Maybe put on a frock and a pair of high heels too. It might help you with your issues.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

again do you think the safeguarding of the vulnerable is important?

This is interesting and perhaps at the crux of where people have differing views on this.

Am I correct in assuming that you believe that a trans person poses more of a threat to a 'vulnerable' person than a non trans person does?

Obviously vulnerable people need to be protected. What I cannot understand is why somebody who identifies as a female poses more danger? That's the head scratcher for me.

 

[Corco65]

I have not called you a sexual predator.

I used another technique called alter casting in an effort to find common middle ground.

A normal persons answer to a question like do you think safeguarding the vulnerable would be? Yes, of course. Your responses have not been affirmative. You appear to lack empathy for the vulnerable.



Those identifying as trans men commit lower levels of sexual crimes than females, or males if we look at prison stats. Those identifying as trans women appear to commit more sexual crime than males. What would be beneficial would be stats on those post transition and in possession of GRC. The skewed offending pattern for those identifying as trans women may be significantly different.

Is this exact, or even? No. Those are figures from within prison, where gender identity is recorded.

You will know (?) that there are no safe ministry of justice figures for wider society . Sexual crimes committed by trans women outside of prison are recorded by using the sex as it appears on our birth certificate, and this does not change without GRC.

What society needs is more research and evidence. Claims need evidence, and evidence feeds societies approaches, its law, policy and that safeguarding I keep mentioning.

What wider society needs are less bigots, who peddle the scare tactics of the right and more people who are accepting and inclusive of others. Where people abuse others, in whatever circumstances, then that should be dealt with appropriately.

 

[Quicksilvera]

The one good thing about threads like this is it shows every decent human being who the bigots are and they wilfully out themselves.

Educate yourselves and be better.

 

[NZBoro1]

Sad reading this, I don't know why I put myself through it.

As the parent of a trans daughter, its a difficult read.

Talk of vulnerable people. In my experience trans are just as vulnerable as others, believe you me.

I can't even begin to understand what she has been through to get where she is.

Please try not to judge or castigate anybody until you have walked in their shoes.

There were times, especially during her teenage and early 20s, when we were just waiting for 'that' phone call.

She spent time in hospital with liver damage she was drinking so much to drown out how she felt - out of place, not belonging and totally confused.

It wasn't until her early 20s that she realised what it was, and sionce she has transitioned we have our lovely, happy, fun child back again.

That means the world to me, my wife and other children.

It does disappoint and sadden me when I see people trying to limit others into what they can do and their interaction into society.

One question for all of you; when you do go out do you plan your journey as to where you can go to the toilet if you are caught short? Do you think - where are the unisex toilets that I can use?

Just one of the things that my transgender daughter has to think about among many.

I understand ther whole argument about safe spaces, but there are no safe spaces for trans people, who are among the most vulnerable in society.

Please try and think about that the next time you do discuss this very thorny issue.