We're having a lot of excess deaths, but the majority of them are now not from the pandemic.....

Telegraph headline on Saturday was 'winter bites early say the nhs' the nhs said no such thing. They do complain about chronic underfunding but the telegraph decided not to print that.
 
Nano said:
A&E isn't first come first served. Everyone is triaged so while one person has an 11hr wait another might only wait 15 minutes. If you are waiting 11 hours it probably is because they have deemed you not a priority. It used to be that those non-priorities would be seen within the 4hr target but that target is so far in the distance now that it is no longer relative. If you are seen within 4 hours then you have been lucky. If you are in urgent need then you will probably be seen fairly quickly even when it is busy. Also, if you go past 4 hours then you've already missed the target so it makes more sense for them to stop other people breaching the target than to treat someone that is already in the statistics which is a clear downside of target-driven performance management.

It's not A&Es fault. It's a system and they are just a small part of the system. Unfortunately they are the first point of contact for most patients so bare the brunt. Patients can't have a go at there not being enough care homes so they take it out on the A&E staff.
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Just say you are having chest pains when you are waiting. You will be seen straight away.
 
JM14 said:
Its terrifying to think if you had a serious incident now you would likely be dead waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Read a story yesterday about an old man who had to wait 15 hours for an ambulance after a fall in his garden, his family had to build a tent over him to keep him warm.

Would be interesting to get the thoughts from the torys on here about this, still happy with your decisions?
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It's not just a Tory problem though is it? GP's still refusing to see patients face to face, lockdowns and restrictions may have saved people's lives from covid deaths or just delayed the inevitable but has signed the death warrants of other patients who had their procedures cancelled or not diagnosed as the NHS turned into the NCS. Also people still afraid of been a burden on the NHS due to the constant media coverage of ambulance waits, waiting room waits etc. Also we can't ignore that certain aspects of NHS funding have been ***ed up the wall by pointless managers with needless jobs (art curator for example, what's the point when that wage could have been spent on more than one nurse).

The current government is just as much a problem as those listed above before anyone gets their wabs in a twist.
 
What a depressing state of affairs. With this, the sewage issues and the cost of living crisis, it makes you wonder what the breaking point is.
 
Randy said:
It's not just a Tory problem though is it? GP's still refusing to see patients face to face, lockdowns and restrictions may have saved people's lives from covid deaths or just delayed the inevitable but has signed the death warrants of other patients who had their procedures cancelled or not diagnosed as the NHS turned into the NCS. Also people still afraid of been a burden on the NHS due to the constant media coverage of ambulance waits, waiting room waits etc. Also we can't ignore that certain aspects of NHS funding have been ***ed up the wall by pointless managers with needless jobs (art curator for example, what's the point when that wage could have been spent on more than one nurse).

The current government is just as much a problem as those listed above before anyone gets their wabs in a twist.
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GPs aren’t just sitting at home doing nothing refusing to take appointments, it’s more than likely a lack of staff because the service was run into the ground for years that’s causing the lack of appointments, it was exactly the same pre Covid

Considering the NHS was on the brink throughout covid of course non urgent procedures were going to be cancelled either through lack of staff or lack of beds, not really sure how that could have been avoided by a service that was already on its knees going through a pandemic. We can probably thank the Tory’s for letting Covid sweep through the population with very few effective preventative measures for making things far worse than they needed to be as well
 
JM14 said:
GPs aren’t just sitting at home doing nothing refusing to take appointments, it’s more than likely a lack of staff because the service was run into the ground for years that’s causing the lack of appointments, it was exactly the same pre Covid

Considering the NHS was on the brink throughout covid of course non urgent procedures were going to be cancelled either through lack of staff or lack of beds, not really sure how that could have been avoided by a service that was already on its knees going through a pandemic. We can probably thank the Tory’s for letting Covid sweep through the population with very few effective preventative measures for making things far worse than they needed to be as well
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GP's are in the surgeries. My local one is fully staffed for example, but you still can't get in to see them unless your leg is falling off and then they'll send you clog up A+E with a 10 hour wait.
 
Randy said:
GP's are in the surgeries. My local one is fully staffed for example, but you still can't get in to see them unless your leg is falling off and then they'll send you clog up A+E with a 10 hour wait.
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Get a new GP? Is your area over-subscribed? You might have a full house of staff but they might be looking after more patients, seeing as other places have lost loads of doctors.

Lack of face-to-face appointments is often down to workload, i.e if half the doctor's time is taken up with other stuff (flu jabs, boosters, lack of doctors all over), they've got less time for appointments etc. To catch up they can probably do 5 calls in the time it takes to do one face-to-face.

It took me three days to get a new GP when I moved (when I actually tried) and I had a phone call that day asking if everything is alright (from the doctor) and had an appointment for a long-standing issue two days later. So it doesn't look like there are appointment/ staffing problems everywhere, but we are significantly short of doctors overall, along with other staff.
 
We all know who/what is to blame but this really breaks my heart. I could cry. Literally.

I am an atheist but i have always said that the NHS is propped up by people who are almost angels. It only works on their good will and sacrifice. I could cry with anger when i think how the NHS has been cut to pieces, year after year after year.
Even if we were to pump billions into to it right now, tomorrow, it will take a generation to get back. Doctors/paramedics/surgeons/nurses aren't trained/hired in a couple of months.
 
MoggasDog said:
We all know who/what is to blame but this really breaks my heart. I could cry. Literally.

I am an atheist but i have always said that the NHS is propped up by people who are almost angels. It only works on their good will and sacrifice. I could cry with anger when i think how the NHS has been cut to pieces, year after year after year.
Even if we were to pump billions into to it right now, tomorrow, it will take a generation to get back. Doctors/paramedics/surgeons/nurses aren't trained/hired in a couple of months.
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That's the real point. It's incredibly difficult to catch up once it's been neglected for any period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Tories have defunded it by hundreds of billions of pounds over the past decade and a bit, it's taken their mismanagement of the Covid crisis to inspire more nurses into the profession.
 
Interesting if its £400/day to have someone overnight in hospital.

A Nursing Home I expect to charge around £1100/week on Teesside or £157 per day and care home around £107/day. I know from family experience there are some spaces on Teesside in care and nursing homes. I know other areas of the country have no available care spaces.

It appears there are opportunities for some patients to be moved. Some patients will need the support in hospital but others could be looked after in a care/nursing home. I am sure professionals are working on this, but in my experience it can easily take over 14 days to move an elderly patient.
 
Redwurzel said:
Interesting if its £400/day to have someone overnight in hospital.

A Nursing Home I expect to charge around £1100/week on Teesside or £157 per day and care home around £107/day. I know from family experience there are some spaces on Teesside in care and nursing homes. I know other areas of the country have no available care spaces.

It appears there are opportunities for some patients to be moved. Some patients will need the support in hospital but others could be looked after in a care/nursing home. I am sure professionals are working on this, but in my experience it can easily take over 14 days to move an elderly patient.
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It is £400. That is the average fully absorbed cost. Some wards cost more than others, some have agency workers etc and could be higher. Some have higher ratios of nurses to patients etc There are a lot of components that go in to a hospital stay. Nurses, HCAs and doctors time plus any other healthcare professional. There's all the linen and cleaning, the catering, the energy, drugs and consumables etc. Then there's all the other overheads which is probably about 20% of that £400. The average salary in a hospital will be way higher than a care home which will account for a big chunk of that extra cost and then a hospital is just significantly bigger so there are a lot of costs to run it that a care home wouldn't have our would have on a much smaller scale.
 
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