We are in a real mess

Jonny Ingbar said:
What do you think is "all wrong" exactly?
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It’s difficult to say with any degree of certainty as the club is run in such a strangely secretive way.

We know that recruitment has been a disaster since our last foray into the Premier League.

We have appointed a ‘Head of football’whose background is recruitment and it is reasonable to believe he would oversee this activity at the club. He doesn’t seem to have had any positive impact whatsoever in this regard.

Warnock made it known that he wasn’t happy with Scott.

It would appear that Wilder, an ambitious manager with a good pedigree didn’t see eye to eye with Scott around transfers.

Yet Scott seems to prevail over experienced football managers.

Why?

Where is this getting us?

Two points from the bottom three, teams below with games in hand, and Percovich at the helm!

Is Scott just another yes man for Gibson?

You can gain the impression that Gibson likes to interfere in all aspects.

However this doesn’t seem to work.

He doesn’t have good judgement and he wants to run the club in a small minded, parochial manner.

In my opinion he needs to withdraw himself and let people who know how to run all aspects of a football club do just that.
 
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Mwelolo said:
It’s difficult to say with any degree of certainty as the club is run in such a strangely secretive way.

We know that recruitment has been a disaster since our last foray into the Premier League.

We have appointed a ‘Head of football’whose background is recruitment and it is reasonable to believe he would oversee this activity at the club. He doesn’t seem to have had any positive impact whatsoever in this regard.

Warnock made it known that he wasn’t happy with Scott.

It would appear that Wilder, an ambitious manager with a good pedigree didn’t see eye to eye with Scott around transfers.

Yet Scott seems to prevail over experienced football managers.

Why?

Where is this getting us?

Two points from the bottom three, teams below with games in hand, and Percovich at the helm!

Is Scott just another yes man for Gibson?

You can gain the impression that Gibson likes to interfere in all aspects.

However this doesn’t seem to work.

He doesn’t have good judgement and he wants to run the club in a small minded, parochial manner.

In my opinion he needs to withdraw himself and let people who know how to run all aspects of a football club do just that.
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My biggest criticism was the lack of continuity between managers, not just with playing staff (although that was bad enough), but also infrastructure; the sports science, scouting/market understanding and pathways for the kids.

With a DofF I think we have realised this, hence the appointment, but it will take a few seasons to see the benefits, they're not going to be instantaneous.

I don't fall out with Gibson having final say in some matters, after all he has a wealth of experience. For example, his refusal to back the Gayle signing is exactly the type of 'interferance' I would like and expect to see.

So in short, a new manager should come with minimal disruption to the playing side of the club - scouting, retention and recruitment should be unaffected, the squad should be suited to the new man (and influence his selection) and all the supporting structures remain unaffected

How many times has a new manager come in and said things need to change; every one I can remember, up to and including Wilder.
 
Lordy there are some very upset people aren't there. My take

It's obvious Wilder flirting with Burnley upset the players and the club.

It looks like Wilder did the same as at Sheff U - get into a fight, ask to be sacked and then sulk until you do get sacked.

Wilder over the summer and into this season has behaved like a spoiled brat. His behaviour to Bola, Dijksteel and some degree Coburn, Forss and Hoppe literally devalued our assets and demotivated his players.

The squad we have is not that bad. A new manager should be able to sort out tactics, motivation and confidence of the players.

The new structure behind the scenes will take years to be fully functional. But we are starting from a better place than Brighton, Brentford etc when they put their structures in place.

Gibson is here until someone else comes in with hundreds of millions of pounds to keep the club afloat. He gets stuff wrong but so does every club owner. Every appointment and player transaction is a gamble. I still don't see who I would rather have.

Let's see who gets appointed as Head Coach and who is brought into help them. And let's see how we look next Saturday. I think we will be surprised at how much of a difference a new team on the bench can make.

I would expect to see much more flow between academy and first team. It's been scandalous how few have been given the slightest chance in recent years. That must drive Gibson nuts.

I'm gutted we've got to wait a week for a game but glad the new coach has that time to prepare his team.
 
edinboro said:
Gibson is here until someone else comes in with hundreds of millions of pounds to keep the club afloat. He gets stuff wrong but so does every club owner. Every appointment and player transaction is a gamble. I still don't see who I would rather have.
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The only £120m required would be to pay Gibson off, but why should he be paid off for something he has made actually worth way less than nothing?
Another investor/owner would likely inject equity as at many other clubs to then help finance progress towards potential.
 
indeedido said:
The only £120m required would be to pay Gibson off, but why should he be paid off for something he has made actually worth way less than nothing?
Another investor/owner would likely inject equity as at many other clubs to then help finance progress towards potential.
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But what about the £1m to keep the club going? That isn't going anywhere unless we close the academy, shut parts of Rockliffe, close some stands, reduce the amount of money put into the foundation and don't buy any players or only very cheap ones. All of which would probably put us in League 1 for a few years.
 
edinboro said:
But what about the £1m to keep the club going? That isn't going anywhere unless we close the academy, shut parts of Rockliffe, close some stands, reduce the amount of money put into the foundation and don't buy any players or only very cheap ones. All of which would probably put us in League 1 for a few years.
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Oh come on, the £1m per month rubbish is like saying energy bills are capped at £2,500 per household.

£64m equity invested by Gibson O'Neill since 1993.
£120m effectively currently loaned by Gibson O'Neill in addition.

Some seasons the club has not needed its P&L covered, some years it has an awful lot (much more than £12m for the season)
GON provide a facility to offset this loss across the Group, it is a Balance Sheet exercise.
It is vital we have that as the club could not raise external finance at all given its current financial state of being worth nett -£120m.

The reality is that if the club didn't owe Group, it wouldn't have negative shareholder value and would be a proposition for new potential owners as they would be focused on the undoubted potential, not the huge debt and lack of assets.
New owners would have to finance the operation. A good one would inject equity rather than just provide a line of credit. A balance of equity and debt is needed to fund inevitable Championship losses.
A line of credit like Gibson has provided is what Stoke's mega rich owners have done, but their wealth is enormous. Sadly for Stokies they are making the same sort of bad decisions as Gibson and are even less saleable than we are without the owners writing off the debt. They are worth -£195m, almost twice as bad as us. But their owners are billionaires with a cash machine called Bet365.

Clubs without PP and chasing promotion will run at a loss which needs covering at some point from a real and FFP perspective. Equity injection is key to this.
 
Corco65 said:
More like saving him money then making him money, after recent losses who could blame him. A lot of people begrudge the ticket prices but expect top players whilst excepting someone else to underwrite the millions to do so.
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So what happens when you pay top prices to watch these players like Mowatt ffs

asking for a friend (-;
 
indeedido said:
Oh come on, the £1m per month rubbish is like saying energy bills are capped at £2,500 per household.

£64m equity invested by Gibson O'Neill since 1993.
£120m effectively currently loaned by Gibson O'Neill in addition.

Some seasons the club has not needed its P&L covered, some years it has an awful lot (much more than £12m for the season)
GON provide a facility to offset this loss across the Group, it is a Balance Sheet exercise.
It is vital we have that as the club could not raise external finance at all given its current financial state of being worth nett -£120m.

The reality is that if the club didn't owe Group, it wouldn't have negative shareholder value and would be a proposition for new potential owners as they would be focused on the undoubted potential, not the huge debt and lack of assets.
New owners would have to finance the operation. A good one would inject equity rather than just provide a line of credit. A balance of equity and debt is needed to fund inevitable Championship losses.
A line of credit like Gibson has provided is what Stoke's mega rich owners have done, but their wealth is enormous. Sadly for Stokies they are making the same sort of bad decisions as Gibson and are even less saleable than we are without the owners writing off the debt. They are worth -£195m, almost twice as bad as us. But their owners are billionaires with a cash machine called Bet365.

Clubs without PP and chasing promotion will run at a loss which needs covering at some point from a real and FFP perspective. Equity injection is key to this.
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Gibson regularly converts debt equity - once a decade I reckon. So he is doing what you suggest.

The only way we'd get a new owner is if Gibson wrote off what he is currently owned and have the club away. The one thing we know is he will not do that to someone not 100% committed. And those types are in short supply. It's a quandary. I think he is trying to do things better. Bringing in Scott was a huge move for him. But it will take time. We have to be patient and see how it pans out.

I hope the appointment of a young, inventive coach who uses the academy will help long term. That's got to be the goal.
 
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