Waco - new on Neflix

Clearly a Clinton did not have anything to do with it - Have you actually read that article you have posted?

No where in it does it state his involvement. All it does is say he made a statement as you would expect a president to do after a major incident - then it goes on to detail the child abuse that you seem to think didn’t happen? Were they all making it up? Even his followers who openly admit to it because to them it isn’t child abuse?

That article is from only a few days after the event so can only go in what was known at the time but it still basically outlines the facts that I’ve listed which do not in any way support your suggestion that Koresh wasn’t a child abuser or didn’t have lots of illegal weapons.

It does however detail some of the evidence that authorities were basing their almost year long investigation into Koresh on - mostly evidence that he was a child abuser coming from very many different people.

You seem to think it wasn’t the child abuser with 100’s of illegal weapons who told his followers he was Jesus and that they were all going to die in a bloody shootout that was at fault, am I understanding you correctly?
 
RenzoRosso said:
Clearly a Clinton did not have anything to do with it - Have you actually read that article you have posted?

No where in it does it state his involvement. All it does is say he made a statement as you would expect a president to do after a major incident - then it goes on to detail the child abuse that you seem to think didn’t happen? Were they all making it up? Even his followers who openly admit to it because to them it isn’t child abuse?

That article is from only a few days after the event so can only go in what was known at the time but it still basically outlines the facts that I’ve listed which do not in any way support your suggestion that Koresh wasn’t a child abuser or didn’t have lots of illegal weapons.

It does however detail some of the evidence that authorities were basing their almost year long investigation into Koresh on - mostly evidence that he was a child abuser coming from very many different people.

You seem to think it wasn’t the child abuser with 100’s of illegal weapons who told his followers he was Jesus and that they were all going to die in a bloody shootout that was at fault, am I understanding you correctly?
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Clinton made statements before the raid too, on national tv. I was living in new york at the time, and followed this keenly as all of america did. Evidence of how they got along with neighbours was on the nightly news before and during the stand off. I lived it.

Jeeze illegal weapons. The ATF found 5 illegal weapons. Thats it! He was a registered arms dealer. How many illegally altered semi-auto do you think are in the USA today? hundeds of thousands. You can go to a gun show and buy them openly.

There was no credible evidence of child abuse. For every witness that said there was many said there wasn't. It was not actionable prior to the raid. It was enough to arrest Koresh, not start a war.

I don't agree with Koresh's beliefs, but that isn't the point, it was clearly congressional overreach, it changed the US landscape massively, women, children and inoccent adults were killed in an illegal operation. I can disagree with Koresh and still think the ATF and FBI are a bunch of murderers., excused by the state.

Whilst the article is just days later, it gives good evidence of what was known, at the time and how legal entities were lying to justify the raid. They closed ranks to protect their own.
 
This is a strange conversation, have you read the article you posted? Clinton didn't make statements before they approached the building in February but of course he made statements while it was happening, how could he not? the article nor any evidence suggests he had influence. Congressional over reach is not the same as presidential over reach but regardless neither had any over reach, thats not what it says in the Washington post article you posted or anywhere else. Nowhere or no one suggests Clinton was involved. The FBI and the ATF might have made a pigs ear of it but there was an 11 month investigation, Koresh had previously been charged with attempted murder and there was a mountain of evidence and witness statements regarding child abuse, even his own followers admit that they had sex with him at 12 and several who left have given detailed accounts of physical and sexual abuse of children.
 
RenzoRosso said:
This is a strange conversation, have you read the article you posted? Clinton didn't make statements before they approached the building in February but of course he made statements while it was happening, how could he not? the article nor any evidence suggests he had influence. Congressional over reach is not the same as presidential over reach but regardless neither had any over reach, thats not what it says in the Washington post article you posted or anywhere else. Nowhere or no one suggests Clinton was involved. The FBI and the ATF might have made a pigs ear of it but there was an 11 month investigation, Koresh had previously been charged with attempted murder and there was a mountain of evidence and witness statements regarding child abuse, even his own followers admit that they had sex with him at 12 and several who left have given detailed accounts of physical and sexual abuse of children.
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Defo a pigs ear of it, an 11 month investigation followed by a 51 day siege involving tanks etc

Remember Bill Hicks..
 
RenzoRosso said:
This is a strange conversation, have you read the article you posted? Clinton didn't make statements before they approached the building in February but of course he made statements while it was happening, how could he not? the article nor any evidence suggests he had influence. Congressional over reach is not the same as presidential over reach but regardless neither had any over reach, thats not what it says in the Washington post article you posted or anywhere else. Nowhere or no one suggests Clinton was involved. The FBI and the ATF might have made a pigs ear of it but there was an 11 month investigation, Koresh had previously been charged with attempted murder and there was a mountain of evidence and witness statements regarding child abuse, even his own followers admit that they had sex with him at 12 and several who left have given detailed accounts of physical and sexual abuse of children.
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I never said the article mentioned congresional overreach, I explained that in a previous post. Clinton was on the news several times and clearly influenced what was going on. At the time there was an article, i think also in the post, explaining clintons attempted rehabilitation of the ATF after a decade of trampling citizens constitutional rights. It was well documented at the time.

That you are unaware of the ATF history may make the conversation seem odd, but that is because you don't seem aware of the history of US law enforcement leading up to the raid.

It did not happen in isolation.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
I

Have seen a couple of dramatisations of this event and not sure I want to sit through another or indeed a fourth.
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That's very much my thoughts though I haven't watched any dramatisation I have read so many articles and news coverage at the time. It becomes almost impossible to sort out the truth.

Given there was almost 900 government agents from the fbi, The atf, texas rangers, national guard you would assume the truth would be easy to get to.
 
Not an interesting fact, I've been to Waco. My mate live in Dallas and when I visited him 20 years ago, he had an arsenal of weapons in a 1 bedroom flat. Bonkers and he argued that he needed them all.
 
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