Tory`s win Hartlepool by 6940 votes.

jam69 said:
Instead of going off on a tangent tell us what the tories have done for the working classes
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They haven't done anything, other than convinced the gullible ones that all their problems were caused by the EU, some Polish bricklayer or some Spanish Nurses, it's bizzare.
The grass is always greener or its always someone else's fault, in their eyes, and the way they see it is: "The darker the skin, more different accent and more different clothing, then the more problems they cause, the more jobs they're stealing", it's ridiculous.

They will be championing the 130k dead, as pension savings soon.
 
wilkos_perm said:
I honestly don't know where Labour can go, I think they'll continue to struggle for the short to mid term future
Brexit
Covid jab
The power of right wing media
The age profile of the UK
The decline of labour in Scotland
the perceived "levelling up" whether or not remotely true
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I don't necessarily agree with that - things can change very, very quickly in politics. Before Johnson became PM they were all at sea and all over the place and had to effectively buy off the DUP to just about get over the line.

The cold harsh reality of Brexit will come ever more to the fore as Covid starts to become less and less of an issue and that's when the reality will hit a lot of people. The Tories don't even hide their corruption anymore its all in plain sight and all a matter of public record and so when the cracks start to appear it will very much become the focus of attack for all of the opposition parties.

Add into the mix that Johnson will feel ever more emboldened by winning Hartlepool and a few councils. This is a weakness for him because the more powerful and invincible he believes he is, the more likely he is to do even crazier and stupid things and it will all come back to bite him eventually.
 
I agree if you have a Tory MP you are likely to get more funding at present - it is wrong but it is happening and at present the ordinary person on the street can do nothing to change it. The Port Talbot steelworks received a lot of Government Support because it is in Wales (both from Welsh Assembly and UK Government) that Redcar did not get. Northern Ireland was flooded with money by May's Government and even before that for politcial reasons (to help keep the peace and keep NI in the UK). Look at all the money invested in the South East in public transport with Government support of the last 30 years. We do live in a crony economy have done for a long time and its even worse in some other countries.

There are things that could help level up the UK economy that the Labour Party could put at the forefront to their policies such as local income tax instead of council tax, different personal/business taxes in different parts of England and Wales, more reform of business rates, reduced taxes on large industrial energy users (UK has very high electricity/gas prices). What don't they?

Labelling all working class people who didn't vote Labour and for Remain as"thick", "gullible" and "racist" is not really a way forward nor is it even true in some cases, in our complex world.
 
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NoMushroom said:
You can't reply because you know its correct - Labour are anti-British, they are anti-working class, they are finished

But to answer your question, you can read the Conservative Manifesto:

www.conservatives.com

Our Plan

This is our plan for a stronger Britain.
www.conservatives.com www.conservatives.com
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You still havent answered the question: (?)
"As Labour keep being anti- working man / lady and anti - British..."?

How is the Labour Party "anti-British" (?)
How is it "being anti- working man/ lady...."

Just because you keep repeating the same emotive statement doesnt mean you are right.
Now`s your chance to prove it (y)
Go ahead.


NoMushroom said:


Typical Labour excuses on here - "Low Turnout" etc ...... Yeah imagine how much bigger the loss would have been if it was a full turnout

As Labour keep being anti-working man/lady and anti-British... the losses will continue
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This was one of Labour`s election leaflets:

Right Labour.jpeg

It it anti - British (?)
Why "British"?
If anything it appeals to base level "patriotism": like "Britains First"
1620378672667.png

or the National Front
1620378807246.png

or this man
1620378832441.png

"As Labour keep being anti- working man / lady and anti - British..."?
How?
 
r00fie1 said:
You still havent answered the question: (?)
"As Labour keep being anti- working man / lady and anti - British..."?
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Only an absolute simpleton would claim that labour are anti-working man/woman then vote Tory, the friend of the billionaire set. Only an absolute dunderhead would claim that labour are anti-British then vote for the Tory party of offshore bank accounts, sweetheart tax deals for foreign business owners, selling off British state assets to foreign businesses, and money laundering for foreign oligarchs through london property leading to house price raises for british people. Sadly there are a lot of simpleton dunderheads around
 
BoroMart said:
Only an absolute simpleton would claim that labour are anti-working man/woman then vote Tory, the friend of the billionaire set. Only an absolute dunderhead would claim that labour are anti-British then vote for the Tory party of offshore bank accounts, sweetheart tax deals for foreign business owners, selling off British state assets to foreign businesses, and money laundering for foreign oligarchs through london property leading to house price raises for british people. Sadly there are a lot of simpleton dunderheads around
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I hope "Mushroom" comes out of the box under the cupboard and tells us why they believe what they do. (y)
 
The reason labour didn't put up a "brexiteer" for Hartlepool, is because that battle was lost years ago, it was unwinnable and had even less chance of being won by going further left (as the far right hate this), they had to go with someone more central or a remainer and basically, just take it on the chin (for now). Then when it goes to rat$hit they can say "look, I told you so, but you went and voted tory, and now they've done you", and "I had your best interests at heart", rather than some labour prop going "fcuk the tories, but yeah, brexit is actually great, we're going to get loads of unicorns and gold, even more whilst the tories are in control of the country".
Also, where are you going to find a Labour MP that thought and now thinks brexit is a good idea? Generally, they are quite well informed about what is best for their core voters/ area, but just because some of their constituency voted leave, it doesn't mean they were right to, and labour MP's voted remain by about 20:1.

Brexit is done, we're out, fake (or real) ****** about it and waving a union jack won't make any difference, and if you thought it was going to fail before, then you surely think it will still fail, and it will. So basically just wait for it to fail and then be on the side that's likely to be correct in 2-3 years when the GE comes. That's better than going down with the ship, and being wrong, as in that case you still won't get elected, yet you would have been proven wrong as well, so come the GE you have even less chance.

If labour start beating the drum that brexit is good for the country, and working class, then they're either lying, or wrong. I'd rather they didn't win and stick to the principles of what we can expect to happen in the next few years, and have more chance at a GE.
 
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Andy_W said:
it was unwinnable and had even less chance of being won by going further left (as the far right hate this)
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The far right have got nothing to do with the Labour vote. Whoever the Labour candidate is, they're not going to be supported by the far right. Labour need to concentrate on having candidates and policies that their own potential supporters will actually want to go out and vote for.

"Unwinnable" ffs. 52+% less than 4 years ago.
 
SuperStu said:
The far right have got nothing to do with the Labour vote. Whoever the Labour candidate is, they're not going to be supported by the far right. Labour need to concentrate on having candidates and policies that their own potential supporters will actually want to go out and vote for.

"Unwinnable" ffs. 52+% less than 4 years ago.
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They do, or sort of in one way, there are loads of labour voters who voted brexit, for no other reason than immigration, it's one of the most common types of persons I speak to on a daily basis, like site labourers, manual trades etc.

Hartlepool was like 70% brexit, you think you can sway that back, within 5 months? All while the tories are "winning" with the vaccine.

The election is winnable, they just need to let Brexit burn, and trust their previous opinion and the experts that it will. That will get some voters back, as people finally wake up, after the pandemic. They can then gain more centre votes with kier and also nobody who has gone green will ever vote tory, so that's not going to work against them.
 
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SuperStu said:
:ROFLMAO:

Wait for this. Wait for that. It's all so passive isn't it? Wait, wait, wait.
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No it's called tactics, obviously lost on yourself. The timing and how it looks are extremely important.

What's kier meant to do, start saying how great brexit is going to be (likely wrong), how **** the vaccine rollout has been (wrong), or appear to be "picking on" the government during a pandemic (it wouldn't be, but it's how it would look to tory voters)?

You seriously think it's a good idea to be attacking the Tories during pandemic, after just delivered brexit, to the labour lot that switched sides, and who are rolling out a good vaccine program. That exact set of people are happy with their brexit, feel sorry for bojo, want a vaccine and are looking forward to a beer. There is absolutely zero chance of winning any of their votes now, trying to would look pathetic and desperate. Just wait, it will be easy next year (and won't look desperate).

Don't think rationally, as those that left labour (and went to tories) have not been rational, and those that went greens or didn't bother are making labour appear weaker than they need to.
 
Andy is Peter Mandelson where do I claim my £5.

Say Corbyn 5 times into a mirror and apparently he comes and puts a commie hat on your head.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
They said Starmer was keeping his powder dry. The problem is he kept it dry until the vaccine was released.
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Just you wait BBG. When Starmer takes the party down to ~100 odd seats in 2024 they'll be perfectly poised for a comeback a mere 10 years later. Or better yet they might postpone it a little longer and really wallop the 2039 elections.
 
Andy_W said:
Hartlepool was like 70% brexit, you think you can sway that back, within 5 months? All while the tories are "winning" with the vaccine.
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Andy it was a Parliamentary byelection. Absolutely no need to sway brexit back.

Labour have won the seat twice since the Brexit referendum. Twice.
 
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