Tories battered

JackG

Well-known member
I have said this before and I will try it again. Starmer and Johnson will target about 500k voters in the next election. They are the voters that will swing it one way or the other. Labour don't care what the staunch Labour voters think, they already have their vote.

Elections are won and lost in marginal seats in UK elections. Its estimated that as few as 250k votes wins our losses an election, if they are in the right seats.

It's nice to see that Labour have finally realised this. Shame lots of Labour voters haven't.
This only works when you can rely on a 'core' vote. Starmer has alienated many traditional Labour supporters, from those on the left who feel lied to, to Brexit-supporting red-wallers who, having 'lent' their votes in 2019, are unwilling to return them to a man they don't trust.
 

GazC_MFC

Well-known member
Increasing Corporation tax is pointless. Big companies don't pay it anyway, it is simple to transfer profit to say Malta where the tax rate is 4%.

As for income tax 'More than 25% of all income tax revenue is paid by the top 1% of taxpayers, i.e. taxpayers with the highest incomes, and 90% of all income tax revenue is paid by the top 50% of taxpayers with the highest incomes.'

Stop using easy phrases and think of something new.

To get real cash it has to be on transfer of capital, I.e from mummy and daddy to you and me and an increase in stamp duty on share dealing.
The top 1% of taxpayers earn more than 90% of all, so only paying 25% of all is conflating things somewhat.

But you knew that
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
"Labour infighting"

Have you seen the gaping chasm in the Governing party?
40% of its sitting MP`s voted "no confidence" in their Prime-Minister.
2 days ago Oliver Dowden resigned as Conservative Party Chair.
3 Senior advisers have resigned since turn of the new year.
Some Cabinet Ministers have leaked through the media - they dont want Johnson, and a large number of MPs are ready to challenge the 1-year rule regarding votes of no-confidence in the party leader.

"Infighting"?

Challenging the staus quo and causing division amongst his own members and MP`s?

Johnson is certainly getting that "job done"(y)


* I post to you [rarely] in response to a this particular post.
Not because of who or what you are.
No I get all that it's just historically all the infighting in the labour party has only benefited one thing: Tory rule. Which is why I currently rally against it in these desperate times where the main priority is to rid ourselves of the corruption of the current government
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Here’s another article that might be of interest to you:

It’s a meta-philosophical study regarding how an unwillingness to have one’s viewpoint altered in the light of new evidence suggests stunted critical thinking skills. It really helped me to think on a deeper and more nuanced level.
I would suggest perhaps you need to re read it. You've gone sp far off the subject and into the realm of petty personal abuse that your last post has absolutely no reference to the current thread. It's said we have pathetic people like you, who would rather squabble and hold petty grudges than debate. But I'm above all that. I gave you plenty of chances to speak like a decent human and stop squabbling and you failed them all
 

JackG

Well-known member
Corbyn alienated me with his ineptness and surrounding himself with Southern elitist lookalikes, I still voted for him.
Many people will continue to vote Labour despite reservations about Starmer but, re Laughing's original point, it doesn't take big behavioural changes to swing marginal seats. Mandelson famously said about Labour dissidents 'they've got nowhere else to go'. They found somewhere to go in Scotland. For the record, I intend to vote Green!
 

RoaryTheLion

Well-known member
I would suggest perhaps you need to re read it. You've gone sp far off the subject and into the realm of petty personal abuse that your last post has absolutely no reference to the current thread. It's said we have pathetic people like you, who would rather squabble and hold petty grudges than debate. But I'm above all that. I gave you plenty of chances to speak like a decent human and stop squabbling and you failed them all

I care little about the current thread. I’m trying to educate you on the skill of debating. You struggle with it on a large scale and that suggests your critical thinking skills are flawed. It’s clear from your default reaction to thinly veiled insults that this is very true. Try to better yourself. It’s a lesson we should all remind ourselves of. Self improvement is nothing to be ashamed of.
 

jam69

Well-known member
I care little about the current thread. I’m trying to educate you on the skill of debating. You struggle with it on a large scale and that suggests your critical thinking skills are flawed. It’s clear from your default reaction to thinly veiled insults that this is very true. Try to better yourself. It’s a lesson we should all remind ourselves of. Self improvement is nothing to be ashamed of.
And yet you seem incapable of debating yourself, maybe you might not be the best qualified to be conducting debating skill classes ?
 

Laughing

Well-known member
This only works when you can rely on a 'core' vote. Starmer has alienated many traditional Labour supporters, from those on the left who feel lied to, to Brexit-supporting red-wallers who, having 'lent' their votes in 2019, are unwilling to return them to a man they don't trust.
You may be right, experts disagree. You clearly don't want to alienate your core support, something Johnson is doing very well. However I would disagree that starmer has done that. Some don't like him, he ain't my cup of tea either. He has no where near alienated the core labour support. Some yes, the vast majority? I doubt that.
 

Same_as_before

Well-known member
The top 1% of taxpayers earn more than 90% of all, so only paying 25% of all is conflating things somewhat.

But you knew that
Is that right?

I thought it made no sense when I read that. You are out by a very very long way.

So no I did not know that.
 
Last edited:

BoroMart

Well-known member
I disagree, it was for transferable vote wasn’t it? That’s surely a form of PR and could have unlocked the door to further reform down the line.
it could also have been used to water down the need for full PR, and push the possibility of it further away.

That's an argument I heard from many people.
 

JackG

Well-known member
You may be right, experts disagree. You clearly don't want to alienate your core support, something Johnson is doing very well. However I would disagree that starmer has done that. Some don't like him, he ain't my cup of tea either. He has no where near alienated the core labour support. Some yes, the vadt majority? I doubt that.
In a sense I was agreeing with your earlier post; he certainly hasn't alienated the vast majority, but he doesn't need to - just enough to fail in the marginals. He's gambling that, come election day, enough Starmer non-enthusiasts will hold their noses and vote Labour. I'm not so sure
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Which is why I currently rally against it in these desperate times where the main priority is to rid ourselves of the corruption of the current government

So why wasn't that the priority in 2019? What's changed?

I'll answer for you. Boris hasn't changed. Clearly the answer is the Labour leadership has changed. If your list of priorities is

1) not a socialist
2) not Boris
3) whatever else

Then it really shouldn't come as such a big surprise to you when socialists don't gush over your political heroes.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
it could also have been used to water down the need for full PR, and push the possibility of it further away.

That's an argument I heard from many people.
Yes I can see that argument as well. I think Clegg was as opportunist a politician as you will ever see, even worse than Johnson, he saw his chance for 5 minutes of fame at the top table and in the rose garden and took it gladly. He didn’t really push for reform.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
In a sense I was agreeing with your earlier post; he certainly hasn't alienated the vast majority, but he doesn't need to - just enough to fail in the marginals. He's gambling that, come election day, enough Starmer non-enthusiasts will hold their noses and vote Labour. I'm not so sure
Apologies got your point now. I don't see the tories even being able to form a coalition government to be honest. Admittedly that it's a lot to do with where the tories sit, politically, at the moment.

Well find out shortly. In any event things look much brighter now than they did 2 years ago. Than christ for that.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Yes I can see that argument as well. I think Clegg was as opportunist a politician as you will ever see, even worse than Johnson, he saw his chance for 5 minutes of fame at the top table and in the rose garden and took it gladly. He didn’t really push for reform.
it was a real let down, because he'd talked a good game until that point. Real policies of the people, but most were fly tipped in a back lane as he was chauffeured to Cameron's side.
 
Top