Thoughts on This Piece I. The Times Today - North/South Divide
- Thread starter Zoophonic
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Cardiffdaffs
Well-known member
Quite an interesting read. What has struck me when I go back home is that people very seldom have any positive view of London and generally view the South as an overpriced , over-populated and unattractive place to live. So it runs two ways and fits in with the way the world seems to be going ie the more globalization makes things more homogenous and less distinctive the more people seem to want to cling to their own parochial/nationalistic identity
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
I agree and find there's almost an ignorance about the south that classifies anywhere south of Peterbrough and North of Southampton as "London". I've mostly taken to say I live in "North London" despite the fact I live 35 miles north of central London but just can't be bothered explaining where Hertfordshire is.
Chutney
Well-known member
Interesting point about how improving the north seems to revolve around making it easy to get to London. To be perfectly honest the thing that makes me feel best connected to other places I may want to get to are several flights per day from Newcastle to Amsterdam.
I spend plenty of time in the south and don't have any particular chip on my shoulder about it, but it does feel like we're regarded as a distant and unknowable wilderness to some. You'd think I was heading on a polar expedition the way some people asked how long it would take me to get home when I left Milton Keynes to drive back yesterday...
I spend plenty of time in the south and don't have any particular chip on my shoulder about it, but it does feel like we're regarded as a distant and unknowable wilderness to some. You'd think I was heading on a polar expedition the way some people asked how long it would take me to get home when I left Milton Keynes to drive back yesterday...
I once worked for a company based in Basildon as Health and Safety Manager for Northern England and Scotland. I lived In Eaglescliffe (still do). I got a call to go to Birmingham to have a look at some work being carried out as it was "only half an hour away from where I live"
Glasgow and Aberdeen were close by too apparently!
I found that this is the attitude and knowledge of just about every southerner I have ever met in the work place and forces.
However I know a number of southerners who have moved to the area and not one of them would ever go back down south.
Glasgow and Aberdeen were close by too apparently!
I found that this is the attitude and knowledge of just about every southerner I have ever met in the work place and forces.
However I know a number of southerners who have moved to the area and not one of them would ever go back down south.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
It's as if nothing has changed since I first encountered southern folk whilst at college. One of my old college mates comes up to visit regularly, he and his wife prefer time off in the north, more things to see and do, easier to travel about.
The north is still grim to many, and they still count the west end as being where they're from, rather than Finsbury Park, Hackney, Islington, Croydon, Ilford, Streatham, etc. where they actually spend their lives.
For every run down part of northern towns there's numerous in the south. Even after what they call gentrification.
The north is still grim to many, and they still count the west end as being where they're from, rather than Finsbury Park, Hackney, Islington, Croydon, Ilford, Streatham, etc. where they actually spend their lives.
For every run down part of northern towns there's numerous in the south. Even after what they call gentrification.
Everyone thinks everywhere else is crap until they go there, live there or experience it. Then they either think it's great, or KNOW that its crap.
I've lived around the country over the years, and the people I surround myself with are the same wherever I am. I can find people that I don't like/ places I don't like wherever I go.
I think London is brilliant, I wouldn't want to live there personally. The North is beautiful and the less the Southerners know about it the better.
Even the London Borough of Hertfordshire is alright.
I've lived around the country over the years, and the people I surround myself with are the same wherever I am. I can find people that I don't like/ places I don't like wherever I go.
I think London is brilliant, I wouldn't want to live there personally. The North is beautiful and the less the Southerners know about it the better.
Even the London Borough of Hertfordshire is alright.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
I used to read this sort of stuff over the years, written this time by a young man . Looks like he knows lots about northern England and its towns and culture doesn't he ?
London.
Id like to go to a few museums and art galleries in London this year, Its the only thing Id like to see there tbh.
I will at some stage this year (as I feel stronger) do my working visit to 1 Canada Square Canary Wharf and Lower Thames Street. I travel to a few major UK cities mainly northern though. But I'm always glad to be away from big cities and be home.
James Marriott
columnist
@j_amesmarriott
James Marriott is a columnist, covering society, ideas and culture. He also reviews podcasts. Previously he worked as an assistant on The Times's books desk. Before joining the paper he spent a brief and in hindsight probably misguided interlude working in the rare book trade, specialising in 17th-century poetry.
Chutney
Well-known member
Huh? What's he supposed to look like?
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
Shaved head, Stone Island jumper, tracksuit bottoms and Nike Air Max - it's what all Northerners wear obvs.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
Definitely the glasses, way too southern looking
Chutney
Well-known member
Sorry. Got confused - it mentioned the rare book trade and given that he also mentioned Whitley Bay I wondered if it might be related to the antiquarian bookseller at the top of my street in the same town.
Should have realised he's actually a spy from Basingstoke. Probably some sort of namby pamby too.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Trustafarian.
Family links have seen him alright I would imagine.
Or maybe not.
Family links have seen him alright I would imagine.
Or maybe not.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Central London is totally different to me to the rest of the South East so there are big differences within what is called the South.
Basically the money in this country is very centralised and if anything is more centralised in recent years. When we had manufacturing there were spots of wealth away from London, but that has diminished as the UK has almost lost its manufacturing/mining sectors. Look at the high quality jobs lost on Teesside with the ending of ICI and Co, which in effect was a negative result of globalisation as manufacturing moved to Asia etc.
If you look to the USA anyone can see how geographical inequailties can be reduced to some extent, but despite a Levelling Up agenda I am not sure those in power of all parties really want more equality in the UK.
Basically the money in this country is very centralised and if anything is more centralised in recent years. When we had manufacturing there were spots of wealth away from London, but that has diminished as the UK has almost lost its manufacturing/mining sectors. Look at the high quality jobs lost on Teesside with the ending of ICI and Co, which in effect was a negative result of globalisation as manufacturing moved to Asia etc.
If you look to the USA anyone can see how geographical inequailties can be reduced to some extent, but despite a Levelling Up agenda I am not sure those in power of all parties really want more equality in the UK.
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Steer
Well-known member
Its a lazily written, cliché filled, unoriginal article that does not say anything new or insightful at all. Taking one silly utterance by a single person and projecting that into something that divides one half of the country from the other is utterly non-sensical. If you are going to go down the route of writing an article about the North / South divide then you really must try a bit harder. Perhaps the author had a strict editorial deadline to adhere to, hence this lazy inconsequential piece.
There is no - North / South divide. The people in the South West have more in common with the people in the North East than they do with people in London. The poverty in some parts of the south west may in fact be worse than places in the North that people traditionally associate with such problems.
The divide is between certain parts of London and everywhere else in the UK, and even then it is not easy to define.
There is no - North / South divide. The people in the South West have more in common with the people in the North East than they do with people in London. The poverty in some parts of the south west may in fact be worse than places in the North that people traditionally associate with such problems.
The divide is between certain parts of London and everywhere else in the UK, and even then it is not easy to define.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
At the start of the article, it was obvious the writer was from a northern town who had moved to London and thought he had made it. The title of that article really should have read 'Why London ignores the rest of the country' because if we are being truthful, that is what happens.
The only thing he got right was this line - You go to Sunderland and you’re like ‘where the f*** am I?
Don't we all do that.
The only thing he got right was this line - You go to Sunderland and you’re like ‘where the f*** am I?
Don't we all do that.
Zoophonic
Well-known member
Which is basically the point made by post no 2. People cling to their own identities and can be very parochial in the view of the rest of the country. It’s the way of the world these days.
The lack/loss of identity and the culture coming out of the northern towns/cities is definitely something that has changed (in my view). Everything is so centralised around London, all media/art has to be diverse which means the identity of the places that are being represented aren't accurate depictions but are instead more homogenous, and usually played by people from London or at least people that now live in London. Financially it is harder to pursue a career in music/acting so most of them come from similar (wealthy) backgrounds.
Student numbers increasing so heavily over the last 30 years has meant that people are far less likely to stay in one area. Even big cities with big identities like Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc are very cosmopolitan these days because they have had so much immigration from students around the country. Bands are as likely to meet at university than their home towns which means there is less chance of them having a shared background etc. None of those things are bad, it does reflect the world we live in better than how it was 30 years ago but it does make it easier for southerners to dismiss the North if there is nothing unique about those places.
Financially London is just leagues ahead of the rest of the UK. There is so much investment there that it is frankly ridiculous. The wealth radiates from London so the majority of the South still within touching distance feels connected to it. As you get further away, in all directions it is far less. The rest of the South must look at London the same way the North does but they also look at the North the same way Londoners do because that's what they are shown across the media.
Student numbers increasing so heavily over the last 30 years has meant that people are far less likely to stay in one area. Even big cities with big identities like Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc are very cosmopolitan these days because they have had so much immigration from students around the country. Bands are as likely to meet at university than their home towns which means there is less chance of them having a shared background etc. None of those things are bad, it does reflect the world we live in better than how it was 30 years ago but it does make it easier for southerners to dismiss the North if there is nothing unique about those places.
Financially London is just leagues ahead of the rest of the UK. There is so much investment there that it is frankly ridiculous. The wealth radiates from London so the majority of the South still within touching distance feels connected to it. As you get further away, in all directions it is far less. The rest of the South must look at London the same way the North does but they also look at the North the same way Londoners do because that's what they are shown across the media.