The Wilder/Burnley Connection confirmed by Scott

Think that's a bit unfair tbh, Warnock should have gone in the summer really, he was given an extra season by Gibson but clearly wasn't part of the long term vision for the club, so as soon as the feeling was that we weren't challenging for promotion there was no reason to keep him on. Of course Warnock and his fan club may claim we were still in the hunt that season but most fans were far more pessimistic about our chances, so it's not that surprising that he got the bullet at that point. Could have been done a little less clumsily for sure. Then with Wilder he must have said all the right things to get in the door, as in his initial interviews he talked about working with Kieron and developing young players like Josh Coburn.. so I think it's more Wilder being a two faced knob, and Scott being at worst a bit naive.
Possibly, but definitely two sides to it which we will never hear the full truth, yes wilder didn’t want to work with the players Scott brought in which wouldn’t never work long term but also worth considering a lot of the players have been terrible as well so can’t exactly blame a manager for being unhappy at the situation
 
Possibly, but definitely two sides to it which we will never hear the full truth, yes wilder didn’t want to work with the players Scott brought in which wouldn’t never work long term but also worth considering a lot of the players have been terrible as well so can’t exactly blame a manager for being unhappy at the situation

I'm not sure how many times the club have to say this before fans believe it, but think Scott reiterated yet again that no player is signed without everyone, including the manager, signing off on them.

Of course that doesn't mean Wilder will have been happy with the transfer business. I think there were obviously targets we wanted and that he wanted we couldn't land. Or wouldn't pay the asking price for. There were also likely targets who Wilder wanted and the club vetoed (Gayle probably). He was clearly hacked off about that.

But I do believe he agreed to every signing we did bring in so if they were terrible he's as culpable as anyone else. His opinion mattered as does Carrick's now.
 
With respect, speculation by the media when linking him with the Burnley job is never going to cause an issue with the club, it's beyond their control.

Given what we do know I think it's very likely that Wilder made it known to Burnley that he would be receptive to an approach, its the overwhelmingly most likely explanation.
Multiple things can be true at once. Wilder may not have been considered for the Burnley job. Wilder may never have approached Burnley. But there clearly was connection between Wilder and it seems highly likely that Wilder was expecting to move to Burnley at the first opportunity.

Looking at the timeline and history, Wilder had strong connections with the American investors who took over Burnley and it seems highly likely that he thought that when Dyche moved on that the job would be his. It is also possible that the American investors really didn't rate Wilder as highly as thought they did and, also, that they had zero interest in paying a fee to get him from us. I think it's most likely that Wilder was played by them and burnt his bridges with us expecting Burnley to make an official approach.

We know that the one thing that Gibson won't tolerate is disloyalty. There is clearly a difference between agreeing to let your manager talk with a prospective new club; a whole other thing to find that your employee has been trying to leave behind your back. Gibson and Wilder had a "clear the air" dinner but I suspect that behind all the handshakes and smiles, they both had their fingers crossed. Wilder pledged loyalty but proceeded to ensure that his representatives kept their contacts out for the first chance to jump ship. Gibson pledged support but then used Bausor as the "no" man. The relationship became toxic with both sides looking for an excuse to end it and blame the other one.

It wasn't just Burnley. The relationship with Scott was clearly difficult; Wilder absolutely did not want to be here for the medium term and develop players. He wanted promotion and he wanted it now. He was only prepared to pay lip-service to the new sustainable model. The January window was poor and also coincided with key players struggling with form and fitness, possibly from the after-effects of Covid. Put all this together but mask it with a fantastic cup run and you get to see a classic example of something that looked fine on the surface but was rotting from the inside.

Probably Gibson should have let him go at the end of the season but at that point what Gibson probably needed to decide was whether Wilder was the problem or the solution. Gibson could have gone all-in on Wilder; sacked Scott and bought the old warhorses he wanted to fire us to promotion. Thing is, he had tried that with Warnock and (to a lesser extent) Pulis and it hadn't worked. However, at that point, Scott hadn't shown much to indicate that he could steer the club and there may have been no compelling candidates so Gibson either kicked the can down the road or decided to give the twin-track approach one last go. It didn't work but, possibly more through luck than judgement, we may have found a coach and team who will work well with Scott.
 
Scott talked to Wilder about the job whilst Warnock was in post making it clear that his vision didn’t align with Warnock. He then claims that Wilders vision didn’t align with his own even though Wilder was his choice and was specifically brought in so he would work with this system.
Something doesn’t quite add up for me, wonder how long into a poor run of form it takes for Carrick to be thrown under the bus as well. Get the feeling Scott isn’t exactly doing well in this job so far
The vision is long term.. the bit about Wilder lifting a flat team is a bit of a cop out imo
Kieron Scott is still learning and just as prone to mistakes as the managers.
 
Multiple things can be true at once. Wilder may not have been considered for the Burnley job. Wilder may never have approached Burnley. But there clearly was connection between Wilder and it seems highly likely that Wilder was expecting to move to Burnley at the first opportunity.

Looking at the timeline and history, Wilder had strong connections with the American investors who took over Burnley and it seems highly likely that he thought that when Dyche moved on that the job would be his. It is also possible that the American investors really didn't rate Wilder as highly as thought they did and, also, that they had zero interest in paying a fee to get him from us. I think it's most likely that Wilder was played by them and burnt his bridges with us expecting Burnley to make an official approach.

We know that the one thing that Gibson won't tolerate is disloyalty. There is clearly a difference between agreeing to let your manager talk with a prospective new club; a whole other thing to find that your employee has been trying to leave behind your back. Gibson and Wilder had a "clear the air" dinner but I suspect that behind all the handshakes and smiles, they both had their fingers crossed. Wilder pledged loyalty but proceeded to ensure that his representatives kept their contacts out for the first chance to jump ship. Gibson pledged support but then used Bausor as the "no" man. The relationship became toxic with both sides looking for an excuse to end it and blame the other one.

It wasn't just Burnley. The relationship with Scott was clearly difficult; Wilder absolutely did not want to be here for the medium term and develop players. He wanted promotion and he wanted it now. He was only prepared to pay lip-service to the new sustainable model. The January window was poor and also coincided with key players struggling with form and fitness, possibly from the after-effects of Covid. Put all this together but mask it with a fantastic cup run and you get to see a classic example of something that looked fine on the surface but was rotting from the inside.

Probably Gibson should have let him go at the end of the season but at that point what Gibson probably needed to decide was whether Wilder was the problem or the solution. Gibson could have gone all-in on Wilder; sacked Scott and bought the old warhorses he wanted to fire us to promotion. Thing is, he had tried that with Warnock and (to a lesser extent) Pulis and it hadn't worked. However, at that point, Scott hadn't shown much to indicate that he could steer the club and there may have been no compelling candidates so Gibson either kicked the can down the road or decided to give the twin-track approach one last go. It didn't work but, possibly more through luck than judgement, we may have found a coach and team who will work well with Scott.
Of course we are all speculating to some degree, but I think there is a consensus around the issues, based on what we've managed to pick up from various places, not only this board.

And I think you're correct to suggest that Wilders wandering eye wasn't the sole issue between him and MFC, but it was a very significant one for sure.

Collectively I think it shows Wilder in a very poor light and has been damaging to his career and I'm sure a great many clubs will be very wary about appointment him currently.
 
I'm not sure how many times the club have to say this before fans believe it, but think Scott reiterated yet again that no player is signed without everyone, including the manager, signing off on them.

Of course that doesn't mean Wilder will have been happy with the transfer business. I think there were obviously targets we wanted and that he wanted we couldn't land. Or wouldn't pay the asking price for. There were also likely targets who Wilder wanted and the club vetoed (Gayle probably). He was clearly hacked off about that.

But I do believe he agreed to every signing we did bring in so if they were terrible he's as culpable as anyone else. His opinion mattered as does Carrick's now.
I don’t think there is a chance Wilder wanted Forss and Hoppe, why would he agree to sign them then play Akpom ahead who he spend the summer trying to force out. Same last season with Balogun, clearly not a player he ever really wanted. Exactly the same as Warnock clearly never wanted the likes of Sporar. There has been no real link up between the manager and signings we make for a long time now
 
I don’t think there is a chance Wilder wanted Forss and Hoppe, why would he agree to sign them then play Akpom ahead who he spend the summer trying to force out. Same last season with Balogun, clearly not a player he ever really wanted. Exactly the same as Warnock clearly never wanted the likes of Sporar. There has been no real link up between the manager and signings we make for a long time now
Not so sure about Balogun, it was widely reported that Wilder had been after him at Sheff Utd. Doesn't explain why he played Connelly ahead of him tbf.
 
I don’t think there is a chance Wilder wanted Forss and Hoppe, why would he agree to sign them then play Akpom ahead who he spend the summer trying to force out. Same last season with Balogun, clearly not a player he ever really wanted. Exactly the same as Warnock clearly never wanted the likes of Sporar. There has been no real link up between the manager and signings we make for a long time now
I'm sure they weren't his first choice targets, but he will have signed off on them. Same as Warnock will have signed off on Sporar and Akpom.

Maybe he thought they were better than nothing? Or he had no choice because the alternatives were worse. And if so you can understand the frustration a bit. Or maybe he thought they were better or different players than he got.

But to agree to sign them and then just refuse to play them is just looked petulant.
 
The way Wilder finished with us was poor.
But just think he had got the Burnley job in the summer - the way they press and play would suit Wilder down to the ground.
He'd of looked like some sort of management genius and we'd all be well pI$$ed off.
As it is Wilder lost out on the Burnley job ad now looks a busted flush.

Lots of luck/timing involved in the beautiful game:)
 
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